To be scared of Labours Land tax

[Dragongirl10]

Just read about this, Labour are proposing a Land Value Tax on any land owned, could cost thousands a year for anyone even with a small house, not just the rich....they have not publicised this at all.

People with modest homes could be forced to sell or go into debt, or be repossessed...

Also if there are going to be no low skilled jobs in the future does that mean anyone who doesn't get qualified in something will just go on benefits for the rest of their lives.

Increasinglymiddleaged, how would you deal with my parents?
They wanted to downsize from our 5 bed family house to a bungalow, but these are like hen's teeth in their area where they have to stay for my dad's medical needs. He has Parkinson's and is deteriorating rapidly. So they decided to build a house on the land at the end of their garden. But they weren't allowed to build a bungalow as it had to look like neighbouring houses to get planning permission so they ended building a 4 bed house. But, crucially, it is wheelchair friendly, has a downstairs wet room, a downstairs bedroom and room for a lift shaft should it become necessary.

How would you downsize them?
Maybe we should just put him in a home?

Of course you can't force people who have paid (a fuckload of) taxes and contributed to society in other ways (DF ex RAF, DM ex teacher) out of a home that they see as their last home.
They worked hard and planned for the future so they would have this choice when it came to their old age.

As Chardonnay points out, this is total hypocrisy when compared to the hoo ha about bedroom tax.

Oliversmumsarmy

Under a Conservative government we are under a Labour one that might not hold true

So if Labour or Green or Lib Dem simply even up the tax situation in relation to Europe then there are less places for the rich to snivel off to.

In terms of jobs in the future. We need to invest in a high skilled work force to avoid having under skilled people being on benefits. This investment is called 'education and training' the other parties have plans to expand this. To encourage young people to train and learn by funding education properly. It will save the country money in the long term.
Cuts will save now but cost us in the long term.

No one is saying everyone should be paid the same.

But you are saying that those earning over £80k will be penalised with much higher taxation.

Given the shopping list Labour has said they want to do and the costings. I really don't think just adding 5p in the pound onto top earners is going to pay for it

We are talking about raising billions (seen it costed out at 90billion) from 7% of the population to prop up the 93%

I lived through the 70s and saw what happened. I also saw how government owned British Rail British Gas and Electric and the Water Board ran and don't want to return there. It was shit.

Oliversmumsarmy
No one is saying everyone should be paid the same

Well yes you did .......

How are Labour expecting to keep anyone from flitting abroad as soon as they qualify if they are expected to be paid the same as a person who hasn't put any work in to get qualified in anything

Halle have you actually read my posts or are you just getting outraged for outraged sake?

In terms of the 'they worked hard' argument people work for the money income tax is paid on. Most wealth that older people have is property inflation that has been tax free. Why should they not contribute some of this back? Both my dad and PIL are well off but don't pay much tax it's to me.

But you are saying that those earning over £80k will be penalised with much higher taxation.

I actually don't think this is a great idea. Our tax system is already highly progressive at top levels of income.

Oliversmumsarmy

Just because you lived through a period of time does not give you a special insight. I didn't live through the '45 Labour Government but I know it formed the NHS and has saved lives.
You also need to remember that a succession of Tory governments in the 50s did not privatise the industries nationalised by labour. By your analysis they are as much to blame as the Labour party.

Or we could look at today's issues?

How are Labour expecting to keep anyone from flitting abroad as soon as they qualify if they are expected to be paid the same as a person who hasn't put any work in to get qualified in anything

They aren't expected to.

We all agreed Bedroom Tax was wrong?

Really? I see so much support on here for the bedroom tax.

I disagree with it on the basis that there are not the smaller places for people to move to. Also the fact that many are being charged for rooms that are actually in use, or are too small to even fit a bloody bed in! Not really on principle. You cannot penalize someone for refusing to move, when the smaller places aren't there for them to move to. Thats whats unfair about the bedroom tax. That and the fact that it doesn't affect (or didn't affect, I believe it does now?) pensioners, who are the most likely to be living in properties much bigger than they need.

Increasinglymiddleaged
I have read your posts and I do understand your point, I just think it's crazy shit.

I bought a flat pretty much straight out of uni. I struggled to pay for it. I got made redundant during the buying process but carried on. I paid for repairs instead of going to Corfu or wherever with my mates. There were some hairy times with my next redundancy.
Most of my peers waited another 10 years to buy.
Naturally I have more equity today.
Explain why I should be penalised for my spending choices?

Can you imagine what would happen to the country if we all thought, fuck it I'm not going to plan for the future or live within my means, I'll only get punished for it later on. Instead I'll sit in my arse all day or fritter my money on designer clothes and cruises.

There has to be a reward for financial prudence.

And you still haven't explained how you propose to take this tax from people who have equity but no liquidity, without forcing them to sell up.

Had they found one, moving to a 3 bed bungalow (inc 1 for a carer and one for me when I visit) in my parent's area would cost the same as their 5 bed if you include fees. Therefore no 'profit' to tax.

Instead I'll sit in my arse all day or fritter my money on designer clothes and cruises.

It will help to stimulate the economy

Have to laugh at fleeing tory tax evaders. Most of the ones who'd go have paid more over the last few years than anyone clamouring for the delights of moralistic poverty (as upthread). My ex was on about £200k a year. That's about £60k a year in tax, off the top of my head. In just 5 years, he's contributed £300,000 and that doesn't take into account council tax, VAT, SDLT when he bought a flat etc. How many lefties will pay that in a lifetime?

But if he takes a job offer in Bermuda, he's suddenly a "tax evader". You couldn't make it up!

In many European countries the top rate of tax starts at a much lower level. When I worked abroad, I was not a higher rate tax payer in the UK. I moved to a tax regime where I paid 50% tax plus social fund. It was a bit of a shock. Most of my colleagues were the same. No one was moving to the Bahamas though. It's paying for the decent infrastructure. Schools, cheap public transports, decent medical care etc etc.

KickHisAssSeaBass if he is in Bermuda to evade tax then he is a tax evader. What would you call him?

I am a leftie and what I will pay is my fair share and I will be happy to do that.

Er - someone doing a JOB? You really think anyone who moves abroad is a "tax evader"? That's so insular!

Maybe it is if you deliberately move to a low tax environment in that manner. Can't think of any argument that you haven't put yourself absolutely first in that situation.

However, I think there's a fairly good argument that someone who has paid tax at those sort of levels has already paid a "fair" share into society, never mind what he'll go on to pay. He could say that you haven't, for all your principles - principles don't pay bills, cash does!

Right. So if the government makes changes that you dislike, e.g. privatising trains and it's a disaster, you should just stick around because otherwise it's selfish not to pay for other people? Bonkers!

KrickHisAssSeaBass I am doing a job and paying tax and I do it in the UK. If I move abroad to evade paying UK tax then I am a tax evader. If I move abroad to say - France - and I pay the higher French taxes then I am evading nothing. However, if I move to Bermuda because I want to evade paying tax then I am a tax evader. Simple enough?

If he takes a job - anywhere - to avoid tax he is a tax evader.

Plus job opportunities that won't be here if the economy falls over, the chance to experience a new culture, meet new people, better climate, chance to waterski to work - but yeah, how awful to put yourself first!

Right. So let's untangle that - moving abroad at all is tax evasion - unless you're paying higher taxes to a different government? But if you move somewhere and the tax is lower, you're a tax evader?

Bizarre logic.

kick

No one is saying that people shouldn't move abroad for work

If however your ex says

Ooh i dont like paying tax...i will move to the Bahamas so i do not have to pay tax

That makes him a tax evader

KickHisAssSeaBass so your argument would be that once you have paid X amount of tax that is enough and you should stop paying?

Many people on the left dislike paying for certain things - the nuclear deterrent being one. Is it OK for them to stop paying tax? It is called hypothocated taxation - you only pay for what you want. It is generally regarded as a 'bad thing' and no political party suggests it.

RufusTheRenegadeReindeer thanks for that. I think I'll go back to the dinosaurs.