Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

school budget cuts...just been fired! Help

151 replies

miniplaty · 31/05/2017 10:25

Posting here for traffic....I've just been told that from September I will no longer have a job. I work part time in a primary school on a fixed term contract until August, this is the second year I have been on a fixed term contract. I've been doing PPA (lesson cover whilst class teachers do planning) and my job is going to be done by a classroom assistant. Can they do this? Is it legal to employ a teacher for 2 years on fixed term contracts and then get rid of them to be replaced by an HLTA? The post will be the same, it's not as if the post will be removed, but it will be done by someone cheaper. Thanks :(

OP posts:
Coloursthatweremyjoy · 31/05/2017 12:44

I remember reading something about fixed term contract employees being counted as permanent after a certain amount of time. I'm not sure about my facts here but it might be worth checking with ACAS or similar.

thatdearoctopus · 31/05/2017 12:52

So, ninja, who does the planning for the classes you cover?

AvoidingCallenetics · 31/05/2017 13:01

Don't suppose you have anything in writing to say you were promised a perm contract after 2 years?
I see why you feel as you do - you have been misled and had you known they eouldn't be keeping you on, you might have looked for alternative employment earlier.
I would definitely talk to the union. It can't hurt, can it.

This is part of what is wrong with teaching - the assumption that just anyone can do it, as of it requires no skill!

notanevilstepmother · 31/05/2017 13:13

Contact Acas.

m.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=4587

You may be entitled to redundancy pay if it was 2 years with no break. See above.

I suspect that they can justify making the teacher job redundant and replacing with a lsa job. However then you should get redundancy pay. I know someone who fought and won this.

CakeNinja · 31/05/2017 14:37

that, the teachers do the planning!

thatdearoctopus · 31/05/2017 14:41

What on earth is the point of the teachers being made to take valuable time (effectively out of their precious PPA time) to plan lessons that someone else is going to teach during that PPA time?
I was asked once and refused. Said I'd rather not have the PPA but as they had to give it to me by law they had to find another solution. It's much harder to plan a lesson for someone else to teach anyway

Orlantina · 31/05/2017 14:45

What on earth is the point of the teachers being made to take valuable time

I wonder who assesses it?

PPA time. Teacher plans it. Prepares it. Who assesses it?

CakeNinja · 31/05/2017 14:53

Well they do a rolling 4 day literacy plan, and the same for maths.
So effectively, during PPA they break down their objectives into 4 bitesize chunks with achievable outcomes. It ties in with the rest of the weeks lessons. It's a small fraction of the time.
And at the moment, a qualified teacher comes in to deliver it. They also mark it and leave notes for the teacher.
From September, there won't be a qualified teacher taking the PPA lesson, they may ask us to cover another lesson entirely which would make more sense.
I don't make the rules Confused

Orlantina · 31/05/2017 15:02

I don't make the rules

I know. It's just a bit crap when people have trained and qualified as teachers and then people get paid far less for delivering lessons in school to a class.

sysysysref · 31/05/2017 15:18

A fixed term contract is just what it says. Your mistake was assuming that it would be renewed, they've done nothing wrong and you haven't been fired, it's the end of your contract. I work in an industry reliant on grants and many roles are fixed term for 1 or 2 years, i always assume that the Period is fixed unless I'm given another written contract

RainbowsAndUnicorn · 31/05/2017 15:42

They have done nothing wrong, the contract has come to an end and they are not renewing it. They can legally do this.

It doesn't matter if someone else will do the role as it's not a redundancy situation.

You've not been used, you wanted to work and took temp contracts. They, in return, paid you.

IlsaLund · 31/05/2017 19:56

I am sure the school didn't make the decision lightly.
It will have been discussed by the GB at committee meetings and ultimately school finance will help them make the final decision.

BeaderBird · 31/05/2017 20:34

Of course it's legal. You're contract is until August therefore it was obvious even before now that you wouldn't have a job in September.

Roomster101 · 01/06/2017 11:00

Of course it's legal. You're contract is until August therefore it was obvious even before now that you wouldn't have a job in September.

It's not obvious that the contract wouldn't be renewed as they often are. In the past some people on fixed term contract had them renewed every year for years so it was really just a way of not giving employees rights and avoiding redundancy pay. The law has changed to prevent this but only after people have been employed for over two years.

Drawward · 01/06/2017 11:35

I honestly think this is a bit of a wind up OP. You say you have been a teacher for at least two years but didn't know about the TES website I don't think I have ever met another teacher who didn't at least know what it was even if they had never been on it.

maggiethemagpie · 01/06/2017 11:53

If the first contract ended in August and the second one started in September you'll have broken your service and will only have a matter of months service on this contract anyway. If you have a gap of more than 8 days that is sufficient to break service so the first contract won't count at all towards any time served.

Sounds to me like they've not done anything wrong, you signed a fixed term contract to start last september and had no expectation that this would be extended to permanent.

There's not really any such thing as a permanent job these days anyway, as employers can and do make people redundant at the drop of a hat. The only difference being they need to consult with you but that rarely changes their plans.

LadyPenelope68 · 01/06/2017 11:54

That thought went through my mind too Drawward as I've not come across a colleague who hasn't heard of TES.

hmmwhatatodo · 01/06/2017 12:56

Miniplaty, I think you will find that lots of TA's and HLTA's have degrees and other qualifications relating to childcare, plus they tend to study within the same key stage rather than jump around as teachers do. I can totally understand your anger about your predicament but surely you must have known this was likely to happen given all the budget cuts. No need to be so belittling towards support staff.

hula008 · 01/06/2017 13:02

In academies they can use unqualified teachers (i.e. People with no teaching qualifications) to teach lessons

MissDuke · 01/06/2017 13:08

I am amazed some think it is ok for unqualified staff to be teaching our children! Would you want an auxilliary delivering your baby? Or a legal secretary to provide your legal advice? There is a reason why a teaching degree exists! We truly are living in sad times.

Mind you I am also surprised on this thread by the TES thing - I am not a teacher and have been on there when looking up stuff for my own children!

Danglingmod · 01/06/2017 13:13

You're right TAs are not "qualified" to teach, but it's rubbish to say they're not qualified beyond GCSE level. All the TAs and HLTAs I know have degrees.

Danglingmod · 01/06/2017 13:14

And the PPA time at my ds's primary school was always covered by a TA (sometimes with an outside instructor for PE or MFL). And he left primary 5 years ago.

hmmwhatatodo · 01/06/2017 13:18

Also, when schools get supply teachers in, they can quite often be newly qualified teachers who haven't yet secured a job and it could be that they trained to teach say, science at secondary school level but are actually covering a day in a school nursery. In this case don't you think the TA who has worked in the nursery for a number of years will have a better idea of what to do than the teacher?

Orlantina · 01/06/2017 13:19

n this case don't you think the TA who has worked in the nursery for a number of years will have a better idea of what to do than the teacher

Maybe they should be paid the same as teachers then?

camtt · 01/06/2017 13:23

www.crunch.co.uk/blog/small-business-advice/2012/05/22/fixed-term-contracts-what-are-they-and-how-can-they-come-to-an-end/

this has some useful information, I think it's not necessarily as straightforward as it might seem and worth getting some advice from a Union or similar.