Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

school budget cuts...just been fired! Help

151 replies

miniplaty · 31/05/2017 10:25

Posting here for traffic....I've just been told that from September I will no longer have a job. I work part time in a primary school on a fixed term contract until August, this is the second year I have been on a fixed term contract. I've been doing PPA (lesson cover whilst class teachers do planning) and my job is going to be done by a classroom assistant. Can they do this? Is it legal to employ a teacher for 2 years on fixed term contracts and then get rid of them to be replaced by an HLTA? The post will be the same, it's not as if the post will be removed, but it will be done by someone cheaper. Thanks :(

OP posts:
Orlantina · 31/05/2017 10:48

It seems that you have more rights AFTER 2 years

www.gov.uk/dismiss-staff/eligibility-to-claim-unfair-dismissal

Unfortunately, you have been there up to 2 years.
If it had been sometime next year, then I think you could claim unfair dismissal.

peppatax · 31/05/2017 10:49

It doesn't matter who is doing 'your role' if they aren't renewing your contract - they're not obliged to keep you on nor are you covered by redundancy laws in who 'replaces you'.

Orlantina · 31/05/2017 10:49

its a fixed term contract.... so they either renew or not, they have chosen not to

True...but employees do have more rights after a certain time period.

aaaaargghhhhelpme · 31/05/2017 10:49

Orlantina- you can claim for unfair dismissal after two years but that's not applicable here as the op has not been fired.

welovepancakes · 31/05/2017 10:51

Check your household insurance in case you have legal expenses cover. It would probably cover the cost of a solicitor advising you on this

Judydreamsofhorses · 31/05/2017 10:51

That sucks, OP, but it is legal. If you were permanent and your post was made redundant to be replaced by a cheaper member of staff that would be different, but as it stands your contract is simply not being renewed. Fixed term contracts exist for pretty much exactly this reason.

Orlantina · 31/05/2017 10:51

Don't know if this helps.

www.farrer.co.uk/how-we-help/employment-issues/WorkLife/WorkLife/Dates/2015/3/Less-than-two-years-continuous-employment-Its-a-trap-/

This bit is interesting

Not realising that the first and last day both count when calculating a period of continuous employment. This means that an employee who starts employment on 1 September 2013 will reach two years’ continuous employment on 31 August 2015. If the employer dismiss them on 31 August, the employee will have basic unfair dismissal rights (in fact, they may reach two years on 24 August – see the next point).

  1. Dismissing without notice and not taking into account section 97(2) Employment Rights Act 1996. To be honest, I don’t blame anyone for this because this provision is thoroughly incomprehensible.

Where an employment is terminated by an employer, the effective date of termination for the purposes of unfair dismissal rights is the date upon which the relevant statutory notice period would end. Therefore, if an employer notifies an employee that their employment is terminating during the week before they would reach two years’ continuous employment, the effective date of termination will be a week after (since they have a statutory right to one week’s notice) and the employee will have reached two years’ continuous employment

LadyPenelope68 · 31/05/2017 10:51

You've been in a fixed term contract which has come to an end, you haven't been fired. As for an they give the role to an HLTA, then the the answer is yes, as it wasn't your post, you were on a fixed term which has ended, so they can give the role to who they like, nothing illegal about it at all.

MrsSthe3rd · 31/05/2017 10:52

As rubbish as this is for you, I'm afraid they can do it, as your contract has come to an end.

I thought the replacing the job/changing job title was more to do with somebody being made redundant? I could be completely off the mark there though.

melj1213 · 31/05/2017 10:53

I know 'fired' is not the right word, but that's just how I feel. Taken advantage of is also how I feel

In the nicest possible way, YABU.

This was a work contract and the contract has been fulfilled. The school has no obligation beyond that, especially if they are having their budget cut and have to choose between a dedicated PPA cover and having that job done by a HLTA who is covered to do that job as well as part of their other work.

The school can choose to renew your contract or not, and in this case they've chosen not to because of budget cuts. Even if they hadn't renewed your contract because they were giving the job to a HLTA, they could easily have had another candidate apply for the contract next year and get the job instead.

Orlantina · 31/05/2017 10:53

you can claim for unfair dismissal after two years but that's not applicable here as the op has not been fired

Surely if a contract has not been renewed and the post is taken on by new person is the same as being 'fired'?

LadyPenelope68 · 31/05/2017 10:54

You do get employment rights after two years, but that doesn't apply in this case as there's been a break of a month in between. Nothing you can do about it.

WhatToDoAboutThis2017 · 31/05/2017 10:56

But can they keep the post and just fill it with an LSA? That's where I think they are being illegal.

Of course they can; they're not doing anything illegal at all.

You've not been fired or made redundant, your contract just isn't being renewed. They can give the post to whoever they want now.

aaaaargghhhhelpme · 31/05/2017 10:56

Orlantina- no!
The op was hired for a defined period. That period is up in August.
The school do not have to give a notice period as the date has already been agreed by the school and op.
After two years she would have redundancy rights. But again. This is not applicable

m.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=4587

Missingthepoint · 31/05/2017 10:57

Orlantina. Your post is interesting but irrelevant, This person has been told now ie End May that her fixed term contract is to end and nor be renewed. She has therefore been given 3 months notice so she would not ever go over the 2 year mark. Sadly for her the school have opted not to offer the OP a new contract and to cover the work by someone else. This is the reality of the world of fixed term contracts.

iseenodust · 31/05/2017 10:58

As PP have said your contract has come to an end. They are under no obligation to renew it. Any organisation, school or otherwise, is legally permitted to look at what it needs to provide and what skill mix will best or indeed be cheapest to deliver those services.

Spikeyball · 31/05/2017 10:58

You may have redundancy rights if there was no break in service? Were you /are you being paid during the Augusts?

Fairenuff · 31/05/2017 10:58

Surely if a contract has not been renewed and the post is taken on by new person is the same as being 'fired'?

No, it means that the contract has ended.

They have taken out a new contract with a different provider.

GahBuggerit · 31/05/2017 10:58

"Sept 15-Aug 16 and then I signed another fixed term from Sep 16- Aug 17."

Am I right in thinking you had a break of a month in between contracts?

If so you do not have the 2 years continuous service that's been referred to to be able to bring a claim of unfair dismissal

So from what I can see what they are doing is fine, shit for you though. Hope you find another role asap, good luck!

Orlantina · 31/05/2017 11:00

It's shit to see someone doing the same job you are but for less money and with less qualifications.

Zaphodsotherhead · 31/05/2017 11:00

They did it in the school I worked in. Just rejigged the job descriptions, so it wasn't the 'same' job (although it was) and got cheaper, less experienced people in to do it. I think they are also using apprentices now, to cover some of the jobs.

Education is in a shit hole right now. Everything has to be done as cheaply as possible (which, I guess, is fair enough), but it's the next generation that are suffering!

KitKat1985 · 31/05/2017 11:02

Sorry OP, but I agree with PP. It's a fixed-term contract, and so the school are perfectly entitled not to renew your contract if they don't wish. It's not the same as being fired. Sorry though.

Original poster
miniplaty · 31/05/2017 11:05

I have had no break in service. Teacher fixed term contract work in a different way to other fixed term contracts, after 2 years I have more rights, I think! To the poster who told me to 'get a grip'....well, that is just not very nice.....

OP posts:
thedancingbear · 31/05/2017 11:07

I'm not completely convinced either way - it's not my area of law - but I think it would be worth you putting in a quick call to an employment lawyer, who'll probably give you a 10-minute freebie.

It seems the augmented rights for fixed-term workers kick in after 'two years or more' - not more than two years - in which case it sounds as if you have the necessary length of service.

Again I don't know the law in this area, but I think it's very plausible that a tribunal would disregard the one-month break during which the school is closed. I'm also aware that permanent teachers' contracts strictly only provide that they are paid for 11 months of the year (though in practice they are paid in 12 installments) and clearly their employment rights are not stymied by the one-month gap.

Judydreamsofhorses · 31/05/2017 11:07

OP, are you in the union? I'd seek their advice. (I teach in FE and the union here are pretty hot on the fixed term/agency stuff.)

Swipe left for the next trending thread