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Original poster

school budget cuts...just been fired! Help

151 replies

miniplaty · 31/05/2017 10:25

Posting here for traffic....I've just been told that from September I will no longer have a job. I work part time in a primary school on a fixed term contract until August, this is the second year I have been on a fixed term contract. I've been doing PPA (lesson cover whilst class teachers do planning) and my job is going to be done by a classroom assistant. Can they do this? Is it legal to employ a teacher for 2 years on fixed term contracts and then get rid of them to be replaced by an HLTA? The post will be the same, it's not as if the post will be removed, but it will be done by someone cheaper. Thanks :(

OP posts:
SarahMused · 31/05/2017 11:30

Are you in a union? If so get some advice. This is from the NUT and may well be relevant to you www.teachers.org.uk/files/FIXED-TERM-CONTRACTS04.pdf . The key thing is that the job has not disappeared but they have appointed somebody else to do it. If you are not in a union the TES forums are your friend. Many others have been in your situation and have recieved good advice

AlmostNQT · 31/05/2017 11:33

It's sad that this has happened.

But I just want to jump in and defend the HLTA or whichever TA is taking on the class.

I've personally observed HLTA's and TA's taking full classes and they are just as, if not more useful than a lot of teachers I've met!

Especially if they have been one for many many years!

They are more than qualified to teach a whole class! I'd defend them all the way!

But again; very sorry it's happened to you. Sending hugs!

SuburbanRhonda · 31/05/2017 11:34

country

I agree - what can they do when budgets are so tight?

I'm fully expecting my job as a family support worker to go soon, so I'm actively looking for something more secure.

Kokusai · 31/05/2017 11:36

on a fixed term contract until August

You are not being fired. They are just not renewing your fixed term contract. #sucks

SuburbanRhonda · 31/05/2017 11:37

I agree some HLTAs are great at delivering a lesson. But not all. And without the requirement to have a teaching qualification, you can never be sure if the quality of teaching your child will get - in the case I referred to - for 39 days a year.

lazarusb · 31/05/2017 11:38

This is very common in schools that have become Academies. Mainly because running schools as businesses means priorities have shifted to finances. I know several primaries (particularly) where TAs take classes for PPA and sick leave and the TAs wage is 'boosted' to £8.50 an hour to do so. Shocking situation.

Kokusai · 31/05/2017 11:38

@AlmostNQT

But I just want to jump in and defend the HLTA or whichever TA is taking on the class.
They are more than qualified to teach a whole class!

No. No they are fucking not. If they were, then why do we have qualified professional teachers? Given your username you of all people shouldn't be down valuing teaching as a profession. "no need for professionals eh? Those fucking lazy teachers with their long holiday, any monkey can do it!"

B1rdonawire · 31/05/2017 11:41

Sorry this has happened to you; I can see that it has come as a shock, because you had expected a very different outcome. Under other financial circumstances, I'm sure the school would have liked to be saying something different too.

If you had been on a permanent contract, then at the two year point you might have had grounds to claim unfair dismissal if you met specific criteria. Before then, you could only claim it was unfair if it was discrimination against a protected characteristic. Unfair dismissal would (after 2 years) be if you were dismissed without due process being followed, in terms of a disciplinary or performance process, or without notice. Alternatively if the post itself were being made redundant, you might have been due some payout, but it would likely have been small. In all such cases, these days you have to pay yourself to take anything forward to tribunal and it's often deemed to be not worth the effort/cost.

As many PPs have said, fixed term contracts operate differently. It's treated as you being awarded a contract to deliver the work for a set period of time, with no automatic right of renewal at the end of the contract period. They are often used for posts that are funded, for example, by research grants; it protects the employer from having to keep the person on if the grant doesn't get renewed. I assume that the terms of your FTC have been met in the amount of notice of non-renewal they've given, if notice was required at all? If not, that might be breach of contract, but unfortunately that's the only thing I can think of that might not have been done "correctly".

(In response to PP: an HLTA teaches my child's class for two afternoons per week - I have no problem with this; they are working in partnership with the teacher as far as I'm concerned. The school is doing its best with severely strained resources. And the HLTA is excellent.)

YetAnotherSpartacus · 31/05/2017 11:42

Sorry to hear this OP. I guess it is the lay of the land ... budget cuts and inferior schools until everyone goes private. :(

CountryCaterpillar · 31/05/2017 11:42

Oh suburban that's so unfair isn't it. And what a vital role you do too. I dont particularly want to return to teaching but looking for my next step.

lazarusb · 31/05/2017 11:42

I used to be a TA and was really good at it but I'm not an even halfway qualified teacher and would never have been comfortable standing in a teacher's shoes. One of the reasons I left. This practice devalues the profession.

CountryCaterpillar · 31/05/2017 11:44

I've wondered about returning to schools as a ta (I'm a teacher) but the appeal would be in small groups/assisting the teacher. Last job description I looked at was whole class teaching every afternoon!!! If I was going to do that I'd return as a teacher!!

Amanduh · 31/05/2017 11:45

It's not unfair dismissal as your fixed term contract is up. They can replace you with anyone they like. Your contract had an end point and it's ended. Rubbish and I feel for you but there's really nothing they've done legally wrong there.

Babyroobs · 31/05/2017 11:46

My son is in the sixth form and cleans at his school , even his hours have been cut !

BumWad · 31/05/2017 11:46

Sorry this has happened to you but if you knew you were in a fixed term contract that ended in August why didn't you start looking for jobs earlier? I think you have been a little bit naive.

Bluntness100 · 31/05/2017 11:47

I'm sorry this has happened but there is two seperate issues.

The first one is are they legally obliged to renew your contract once it ends. The answer is no and your thread title is misleading, you were not fired, your contract came to an end and the school chose not to renew.

As for how they fill the role and the qualifications required, that's a seperate issue and needs to be treated as such. That will be for the school and the education authority to manage in line with the guidelines. As you will not be employed by the school when someone new takes over the workload, I'm unsure how much grounds you legally have for challenging and challenging doesn't mean they will give you the job.im sure there is many ways for them to cover it.

BewareOfDragons · 31/05/2017 11:48

Sorry, but you're on a fixed term contract. They don't have to renew it. I will have the same issue at the end of next school year. :(

BewareOfDragons · 31/05/2017 11:54

I blame the government, btw. I know it's easy to be furious at the school, but there really is NO MONEY. Our school's finances are in a shambles. I know the people who deal with the school's budget aren't sleeping well. They're cutting back hours and costs everywhere they can. It's a nightmare.

If people really want things to change for the better in the schools, they need to vote against the current government. They're destroying schools by continually cutting their budgets. Schools are on their knees.

SapphireStrange · 31/05/2017 12:04

Teacher fixed term contract work in a different way to other fixed term contracts, after 2 years I have more rights, I think!

Find out more about this, and then you'll know whether you can fight it or not. ACAS?

Original poster
miniplaty · 31/05/2017 12:07

Thanks all for your input. I guess I'll have to phone my union to find out.

But to those of you who think it's ok for children to be taught by TAs....well, you are wrong! No matter how good/experienced they are, they have not done a university degree, you only need GCSEs to become a TA and frankly, I would much rather my children were taught, even for an afternoon, by someone who has a proper teaching qualification. TAs do amazing work, but they are not teachers and the only reason schools use them to teach is to save money, so don't for one minute think that the school is trusting a TA with a class because 'they are wonderful' it's because they are cheap

OP posts:
LadyPenelope68 · 31/05/2017 12:17

not sure why people are using the redundancy word as the OP has NOT been made redundant! Her fixed term contract has ended, the school have done nothing wrong, end of.

manicinsomniac · 31/05/2017 12:17

It really sucks that you're being treated like this but I agree that it's not illegal and probably isn't the school's fault. They can also change the role for the HLTA. Instead of planning, delivering and assessing the afternoon as I assume you do, they could just ask the new person to deliver what the teacher plans and assesses. Which is also rough on the class teacher because it's more work. Stupid cuts!

On the plus side, you should be able to walk into a teaching job of your choice. I can't believe how bad the recruitment crisis seems to be. I teach in a well regarded, pretty fancy independent prep school and we recently got a grand total of 2 (unsuitable) applicants for a fairly senior position. We'd expected loads.

Roomster101 · 31/05/2017 12:21

You can still be "unfairly dismissed" if on a fixed term contract but you have to have been employed there for more than two years. It seems that they are deliberately terminating your employment before you have any rights which I feel is an abuse of the system.

MrsPinkCock · 31/05/2017 12:29

I'm an employment lawyer.

You may not have been fired, but a dismissal in law still occurs when a fixed term contract comes to an end. If you have over two years continuous employment, they still need a potentially fair reason for dismissal. When a fixed term contract expires, that reason is either redundancy (which it isn't, as you're being replaced) or "some other substantial reason" (budget cuts, we can't afford you anymore, we don't need someone qualified in the role).

Unfair dismissal rights kick in after two years but after four years of fixed term contracts you're deemed to be a permanent employee.

If you have under two years continuous service and they simply chose not to renew then in short, you can't do anything about that. If it was over two years you could have a case if proper procedures were not followed and they can't legally justify the decision to dismiss you.

CakeNinja · 31/05/2017 12:33

I'm support staff in primary. Part of my contract is that I have to be willing to take the class for short periods of time.
If it's any consolation, us LSAs aren't happy about it either. Our school are not renewing PPA teachers next term either, there is just no money left in the budget for this luxury. Previous schools I have worked in haven't used PPA teachers at all and we covered.
We don't have to plan anything, or mark anything, simply deliver the lesson.
All for the pennies we earn a month, which sticks in the throat when we know how much they were willing to pay for it. And now it's like, "hey, we need to cut costs - how about we just lose the expensive resources and go with the cheaper alternative. Obviously they're not REALLY good enough or else we would have used them in the first place, but now we're in a tight spot, they'll do."
No one wins here. There are not infinite pots of cash sadly, LSAs will be next to go anyway.