Anyone have experience of health care systems in other European countries that works better than NHS

[DeidreInaQuandry]

For decades we've been told the NHS is in crisis/at breaking point etc

I often read on MN about how wonderful health care is in Germany, France, Scandinavia. So what are they doing differently/more efficiently and could we adopt it?

Of course you can. You can find any kind of speciality working privately and you pay for it. Either by having private health insurance or paying per visit.

For example, my DD was born just before the men B vaccine became part of the NHS cycle. I wanted it for her. I paid for it.

There is a private system there for those who want to pay.

Yes, but that doesn't apply for referral to specialist. You can't just call up and make an appointment to see a consultant - you still need to be referred.

Vaccinations - yes. Although I suspect it would be unusual for insurance to pay for that.

DH is a consultant with a large private practice - he can't just see people off the street.

brasty I disagree that the wellness checks are a waste. I think they are vital. Issues are being dealt with that have been raised by my annual check up. I'm now 37 and it's so much cheaper to deal with the issues now rather than wait until I'm in my 50s and the small issues the doctor can see now become much bigger problems later on.

Preventative care is extremely important in our aging population. Without it we will be bankrupt paying for medical care that could have been avoided with cheaper preventative care.

And vaccinations. I have no idea why the U.K. Seems to be the only western country left that doesn't vaccinate against chickenpox. The NHS talks about delivering the best value for money however I think their idea of value is different to mine.

I agree with you Want - we are getting DS vaccinated privately against CP but it can't be done until he is one, by which time he will have been in nursery for several months with a risk of exposure. Herd immunity is far preferable and I would be interested to know how much the decision was based on cost. ( The official story is that it might increase the risk of shingles in the adult population).

young The other big difference is the testing of HIV. I'm tested annually as part of my medical. It's an important test and I really do think every adult should be tested annually.

I work indirectly with people with mitochondrial disorders. Other European countries are much more assiduous when it comes to testing for this sort of thing. As a consequence, children are diagnosed sooner and start treatment or management. Limited NHS testing is available and it's another example of a service that cannot be accessed privately, because the NHS is the only provider. All these things are dismissed as "rare" but they can decimate the lives of sufferers.

I hate the idea that we should accept crap service because the NHS is in crisis - it has been in various crises throughout my entire life! It's time to look at alternatives which preserve access but allow competition amongst providers. I think co-pay is coming and I hope it drives an improvement in standards.

Young that's what I was wondering about. Surely you can't just ring up a Gynaecologist privately for a consultation and treatmeant without your GP bing involved at all. Vaccinations are different. Even Pharmacies like Boots can give vaccinations privately. I know about that because I enquired about the MenAcwy vaccine and some Boots pharmas were offering it, you can also get travel vaccinations privately but that's not the same as accessing a specialist for ongoing treatment like some posters have mentioned upthread, like you can in Europe or the US.

I didn't even realise there was a chicken pox vaccine until we were abroad so obviously I'd thought I'd pay for it for my DC. But having looked into it, I can't say I'm convinced.

You could be asking why aren't most European countries including the men b in their vaccination schedule? Because the consequence of meningitis are far more likely to be far more serious. It's my (limited!) understanding that because vaccinations normally form part of the government program, that the men b vaccine is considered too expensive at the moment for them. But the NHS has decided that it is a cost it wants to pay for.

There is no need to be tested annually for HIV unless you are at risk. But if you want an HIV test under the NHS, you will get one.

The NHS does not waste money on tests unnecessarily. Unless you are at risk of getting HIV from cross blood contamination, then the other risk is sex. In which case you are better off going to the GU clinic and getting an annual screening of everything. There are many things you can catch that are far more common than HIV.

I'm obviously missing som thing but why would ou Ned a CP vaccin though? It's a mild virus that lasts at most A week and half. I can u derstand why the NHS don't offer it. Do some people have it in a severe form?

Last Yes you can. I've just googled and found private healthcare websites where you search for a gynaecologist in your area and most say no referral needed. Or you just go to a private gp and pay for your referral!

Totally agree as well with Brasty about HIV, unless you're at risk via cross blood contamination or play Russian Roulette why would you be at risk of HIV? You're more likely to catch the flu.

Last Again, my limited understanding, the consequences of chicken pox can be serious. But the chances are so very very small compared to the chances of the mild (normal) version.

The thing is, once you start with the private system, you've got to realise that decisions are being made on a financial basis rather than a public health need. So they will give you as much as they can get away with, or insurers will pay for because it's all money making. The over-medicalisation and overmedication that I've seen here horrifies me.

The NHS is not perfect by a very long stretch but it doesn't have this particular problem.

last maybe it's just for gynae - that's isn't the case in DH's field. It makes sense though - hard enough to get a GP appointment without people queueing to get referred for voluntary testing that the NHS has decreed is unnecessary.

I had CP horribly badly and am still facially scarred - it's not a mild virus in every case. I don't want to put DS through that for the sake of 100 quid.

The CP vaccine here in the US is for the more serious strains that cause problems.

Also HIV was increasing in our area and the increase in testing identified more people than they estimated as being HIV+. It makes a lot of sense to test for it. They were not expecting so many people to be unaware that they were HIV+. I wonder how much that is happening in the U.K.

I'm still torn about CP vaccine. I keep thinking I've decided no but can't quite shake it off.

First off, thanks for deciphering my typos! Methinks the iPad is about to kick the bucket. Sorry to hear some of you had a severe strain of CP, I thought it was just mild. If you have cause to think your dc might be one of the more severe cases I'd definitely get it done privately. But because it's rare, that's why the vaccine isn't offered nationally. NHS I guess provides healthcare for things that affect the majority of the population. That's not to say those in the minority aren't important. But because it's free it explains some of the differences in healthcare provision in the U.K and Europe where it's funded by insurance.

I still think the NHS is the best healthcare system in the world. It's the only system I know of that EVERYBODY has access to and you are treated equally, it may not be all bells and whistles but you can be assured that if you are ill, someone (a professional) will take care of you, you won't be left at home because you can't pay, unlike some places .

I would be less keen if I had not had it so badly myself tea. DS is young enough to have had Men B as part of his routine vaccs. It made him really poorly and feverish. I would rather not take the risk but to me the benefits are worth it.

Just for some perspective - I have a heart condition for which had an (expensive) investigation in Germany some time ago, in a specialised cardio clinic. All was fantastic, except was advised that pregnancy would be nearly impossible, would have to literally live in the hospital, with mother's mortality being hinted at heavily.
Fast forward a couple of years, back in UK I was lucky to be referred to an NHS consultant, absolutely free, 2 miscarriages and one difficult pregnancy later, I had my baby! Didn't have to stay in a hospital after all, just weekly appointments with my wonderful consultant. NHS is not always rubbish but it does need better management and reevaliation of its finansing IMO.

*re-evaluation :)