Anyone have experience of health care systems in other European countries that works better than NHS

[DeidreInaQuandry]

For decades we've been told the NHS is in crisis/at breaking point etc

I often read on MN about how wonderful health care is in Germany, France, Scandinavia. So what are they doing differently/more efficiently and could we adopt it?

In Austria, I believe they don't have GPs like us. They go direct to say a dermatologist or gynaecologist clinic. I like the sound of that.

An appointment costs 1 euro and the appt takes as long as it takes

I'd be more than happy to pay more to see my GP within a couple of days and not 2 weeks.

Cantspell2 I'm sorry to hear about your husband

I need to go nag DP to go talk to his GP about screening - his mum died of bowel cancer in her fifties and he's 52 now.

I had a baby in Belgium - awful system. Antenatal appointments took at least half a day by the time you factored in waiting to get billing processed, waiting for the midwife, waiting hours for the doctor, waiting for doctor to see the more experienced doctor... And I'm talking routine blood pressure, measure bump, etc appointments

Delivery was ok but pain relief options were paracetamol, brown paper bag or epidural. Had to deliver lying on your back.

Postnatal was fine, not half as great as I was in expecting for the 'private' system. Luckily they let me out after 24 hours rather than keeping me in for the usual moneymaking 3-5 days.

And the cost of the birth was 4000€! Just for the 36 hours I was in hospital.

I'd do my NHS pregnancy 10 times over rather than that ordeal again.

"In Austria, I believe they don't have GPs like us. They go direct to say a dermatologist or gynaecologist clinic. I like the sound of that."

I can see the point of a system like ours where you're referred to a specialist if it worked properly and the general doctor looked at your overall health holistically. However, the reality is doctors refusing to let some patients talk about more than one health problem so they're not doing that anyway. In a system where you pay at the point of use, people tend to prefer to go straight to a specialist to avoid all the fees.

I'm in Austria and there are plenty of GPs here, but you can also go and see a specialist directly, without needing a referral. I see my gynaecologist every six months (every 6-12 months is recommended), dermatologist once or twice a year for a skin check (family history of skin cancer and as I've had a couple of abnormal moles removed), the paediatrician is normally the first port of call for children who need to see a doctor, etc.

I had my first mammogram in my late thirties, although the radiologist said at the time that there was generally little point in mammograms at that age as the tissue is still so dense that you can't see much. The starting age for mammograms has now been raised from 35 to 45, but you can still request one earlier.

The healthcare system here is excellent, but we do pay for it with fairly high social insurance (healthcare, pension, etc.) contributions.

Just out of interest, what do you see the gynaecologist every 6 months for?

Is it just: how's the fanjo? Yep, fine.

captain

not sure why it is 6 monthly but I had something discovered in a routine check up with required urgent surgery. I didn't have symptoms and it saved my fertility. I don't think I would have children now if I had lived in the UK back then.

Also, GPs in Germany don't prescribe the pill/contraception. you have to see the gyn for that as well.

No personal experience but a close friend lives in France and says the system there works far better than the NHS.

I would favour a system of sliding scale insurance depending on family income. I would also favour increased competition in the sector. I was in a private hospital recently for an op and it was like night and day compared with the NHS. They know you have the choice to go elsewhere so are more flexible with appointment times and the facilities are much nicer.

The hard left will never go for this though - the NHS is some sort of socialist sacred cow which should never be changed, ever according to them.

My gynaecologist likes to me to go every six months as I have a coil and she wants to check everything's still ok with it. (I left nine months between check-ups once and got told off.) I have an ultrasound to check the coil is still in the right place as well as a smear test and breast examination, discuss any other concerns (when my next mammogram is due, etc.). But even when I was on the pill, I used to go every six months - mainly because she would give me sample packets of the pill I used, which saved me paying for it (contraception isn't free here).

This is very interesting thread. Can anyone tell what are the main differences between the French system and the German system?

From this thread it appears that the best healthcare systems are in countries where tax is higher than UK or citizens have to have private healthcare. Why do so many people in the UK think they are entitled to excellent free healthcare?

www.theguardian.com/money/2017/may/27/tax-britons-pay-europe-australia-us

Good question Giddyaunt. The common answer to that is usually, 'I've paid my taxes'!. I think most just don't fully comprehend how much healthcare actually costs. Perhaps if the NHS publicised it more people will star to wake up to the fact that if you want stellar service, this is the cost associated with that.

One poster,entioned Having a baby in France, she stayed for 36hrs and paid 4000e. When we got to give birth in the U.K we don't think it's costing that much. I remember yrs ago when I worked for the NHS and we discovered that it costs £75 to call out an ambulance! ''Tis was in the 90s.

Giddy There's a difference between free and free at the point of delivery though. People forget those crucial words: 'at the point of delivery'!

Lots of people have said things like going to a gp in their country 'only' costs 25/30/50 euros and their health insurance will pay it back. What if you don't have 25 euros to pay up front?

People in the U.K. need to fight to keep the NHS free at the point of delivery. My understanding is that it could be easily be taxpayer funded, we might have to pay more tax towards healthcare like the rest of Europe does towards theirs, but it doesn't need to be privatised in order to deliver excellent care.

It will take a brave government to tackle the NHS but I am with PP's. It cannot continue in its current state. All those people saying people could die if they had to pay to see a GP. Well - with that way of thinking why isn't food free?

Let people take personal responsibility for their health. I used the NHS briefly last month and there was a waiting room 80% full of overweight people some of whom were grossly overweight. I had a Macdonalds the other day. Bit of a treat but I am 8.5 stone. There were families in there overweight themselves with kids who were going the same way. We must not expect the 'state' to pay/look after us regardless of our own behaviour.

I had a friend who worked as a benefits advisor for a local authority. She was meeting people who had claimed they didn't have enough benefits and wanted some support. Claire listed out all their outgoings as a first step and then told them to mark them in order of priority. The shocking thing was that rent and school uniform (I know - a bit strange) came very low down. They literally saw themselves and their own personal needs first and everything else could wait. There was a huge sense of entitlement to get what others had but no real idea of how they were going to achieve it apart from asking for more money.

captain They do a lot at my annual medical. Blood work is done and includes everything from HIV to cholesterol to iron levels before your appointment. When you attend they do an exam including breasts, posture (includes flexibility), a smear and they take my waist measurement as well as height. My feet are checked and I am asked which specialists I've seen since my last appointment.

My weight has been an issue and my doctor is helping me a lot. I've got a stressful life with a child who is disabled. My doctor has gotten me to a therapist to help me with emotional eating and encouraged me to sign up with WW. I've lost 15lbs so far and the weight is continuing to drop. I'm no longer obese.

Those annual check ups that the NHS seems to laugh at as unnecessary pick up on issues early on. Also obesity should be treated as a medical condition and the NHS just isn't set up to manage such issues. I had 8 therapy appointments to help with my emotional eating. I now have a meeting every 12 weeks for three years. The cost of this treatment on my explaination of benefits is $6500. Personally I think it's money very well spent. I'm a better mother, wife and I'm happier within myself. The long term savings are huge.

If the NHS is so great, why has no single other country copied it? In places like France, generally more left-leaning than the U.K., they don't want our system. Why would they? They have a choice of providers and easy access to specialists.

You have the same access to specialists in the U.K. - you'd have to pay for them; they have to pay for them.

Should have said 'you have the same access... without a GP referral'

Most of these other systems cost more to actually run. Also co pay is common, some of which you can claim back. Having to pay upfront and then claim back will exclude many people from using services.

You can get a free annual health check with the NHS. But unless you are in a high risk group, they are normally useless. Anyone with ongoing medication gets an invite to an annual check up. Doing an annual check up on healthy people with no symptoms is a waste of money, but people seem to like them.

But most of the time it's getting a timely GP referral that is the problem. And the GP's are incentivized not to refer, which I find chilling.

Insurance is highly regulated and widely available in W European countries and paid for by the government for people who can't afford it. It's hysterical scaremongering to suggest that people simply wouldn't go.

There is no NHS anywhere in the world apart from the U.K. and it's arrogant in the extreme to suggest that our system is the only fair one.

teaandbis You can get access to a specialist without a GP referral in the U.K? I didn't know you could that. Seriously?

You can't, Last The only difference is that a GP is more likely to refer if you have private insurance because it does not affect their budget.