Anyone have experience of health care systems in other European countries that works better than NHS

[DeidreInaQuandry]

For decades we've been told the NHS is in crisis/at breaking point etc

I often read on MN about how wonderful health care is in Germany, France, Scandinavia. So what are they doing differently/more efficiently and could we adopt it?

scaryteacher

Not disbelieving you and I think you missed the point of my post.

hackmum
I'm not trying to pressure you or be personal but the lifetime risk of getting bowel cancer is higher than the risk of cervical cancer, so it doesn't make much sense to go for cervical screening and not bowel.

"I have nothing wrong with my bowels"
Well I certainly hope not but unfortunately bowel cancer often doesn't give any symptoms until its advanced. That's why there is a screening programme.

Scaryteacher - I was in 9100 so a bit further out in the sticks! :D

I think it is worth repeating this for a THIRD time:

Even in these countries that have semi private healthcare, their governments still spend more national GDP on their health service. Our health service is starved of funds

Also the post from Crumbs1 Sun 28-May-17 23:04:31 and this link (already referred to earlier in the thread) [https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/blog/2016/01/how-does-nhs-spending-compare-health-spending-internationally]

People seem so keen to say how much better other systems are without accepting that we should be putting in at least as much funding as most of the countries whose citizens at least pay part of their care directly instead of completely through taxation (as is the case in the UK).

I am not saying we shouldn’t look at other options and think about charging more at the point of service but this does not absolve the government of having to allocate more funding anyway

We need to stop believing the lie that the NHS is a money pit that can't work and that it is massively inefficient. There is no real evidence to support this.

If other counties can consistently put a greater portion of their GDP into their healthcare systems, why can't we? Just charging more at the point of delivery is not going to be enough unless we want to go for an American system which I hope most British citizens would be horrified by.

I've had two babies in France and the care has been fantastic. Lots of scans, lots of midwife appointments, private room for five days, all 'free' - but pay lots of tax and top up insurance. V easy to see a specialist, gp appointments always the same day.

Agreed bumblingbovine the underfunding of the NHS is quite deliberate strategy (there are plenty of verified quotes from Tory ministers/ex ministers saying that!), intended to make it easier to privatise along the US model.

There is absolutely no suggestion from the Conservatives that any European model is being considered. The choice isn't "which one of these should we pick", it's "do we retain a national health service or sell it to the US and fuck the safety net".

How does a fully private system like the U.S. system work in the face of a crisis such as happened in Manchester?

Judging by the "gofundme" appeals for the medical fees of the third guy (the one who survived) attacked by the white supremacist in Portland, not great

"Again, regions and areas are all different. I'm sure that's the same for every country but that was my experience."

Ok, but the problems people have seeing their GP and the waiting times in Britain are well known, even if some areas are fine. I'd never heard of Belgian GPs being over-subscribed so I think your experience is probably not representative at all. Either you were unlucky or there's a conspiracy not to talk about this in Belgium. Also, as you pointed out you were able to change doctors, something we can't do here.

"I've had two babies in France and the care has been fantastic. Lots of scans, lots of midwife appointments, private room for five days, all 'free' "

I didn't have a baby in Belgium, but friends who did had the same obstetrician following them before the birth and attending at the birth. People (especially midwives) complain about birth being over-medicalsied, but my friends seemed to get much better care than here. I think you probably did need extra insurance on top of the mutuality payments though.

Gywn: I only ever gave my personal experience and insight from living and working there. I spoke to colleagues who had the same experience so thought it was wider spread than just me.

I'm glad you had such a positive experience :-)

"People seem so keen to say how much better other systems are without accepting that we should be putting in at least as much funding as most of the countries whose citizens at least pay part of their care directly instead of completely through taxation (as is the case in the UK). "

Not me, I absolutely believe medical care should be free at the point of use and people shouldn't be penalised for being ill. We should pay for it from taxation.

emmyhNL - I remember my Belgian GP asking what the hell was going on with the British NHS and was it true that people ad to wait many months for operations. She was horrified.
I left in 2010 so I really hope it hasn't all gone down hill since then.
I should say that I've been treated nicely by NHS staff since I've been back, that's when I manage to see someone. I do worry if I had something serious, it would have to look serious from the beginning for me to get a quick referral.

Not Europe but in Canada, I'll give my two pence worth anyway.

It's great for major surgery I. E. C-section, not that great if you need a doctor's appointment at short notice for something like a throat infection.

You do pay for prescriptions too, and dental care post partum isn't free like in the UK.

slightlyglitterbrained that is something which would frighten me.

GnomeDePlume Agreed. Heartbreaking to think of parents having to deal with their child's serious injury or death and at the same time having to deal with an endless series of bills arriving for each tiny part of your child's treatment.

We need to stop believing the lie that the NHS is a money pit that can't work and that it is massively inefficient. There is no real evidence to support this.

Other than almost everyone's experience of it.

I agree we need higher taxes to pay for it AND point of use charges.

Visited my mum in hospital in N.I.

Absolutely shocked at the state of it compared to where I live in Europe.

bruffian you ignored the point that of course the experience of it would be bad if it's underfunded compared to other countries' systems.

You can't compare systems directly if you aren't spending similar amounts on them.

So what are they doing differently/more efficiently and could we adopt it?

The thing they're doing differently is funding it better.

We had a couple stay with us recently, she was from the Netherlands, he was from Switzerland. She injured her leg someway, not broken but needed crutches, she was treated in A&E in Bournemouth, or near there. They both raved about the treatment she got and said it was much better than their countries. I couldn't quite believe it because all we hear is how shit our system is and how great other countries healthcare is, especially in my mind, Switzerland.

I was admitted to hospital in Austria last summer. The ambulance wouldn't touch me until they had my EHIC card. The hospital was a lovely building but very sterile (ha ha!) and quiet. I went to A&E on a Friday night, just after midnight and I was the ONLY person there!! The density and diversity of the population here definitely makes it harder to provide consistent and plentiful services. I've been a prolific user of the NHS over the last 10+ years and, apart from the admin, have found it mostly brilliant.

Healthcare tourism is a huge problem in the U.K. Just look on the boards here. Women stationed abroad in Dubai return to the U.K. To have their baby only to return to Dubai postpartum. When I have raised this I've been told it's legal as they are British citizens and are resident at the time of birth.

It isn't legal because they have not moved back to the UK with the intent to reside beyond their maternity leave. They should be paying. I'm British too. The arguments I've had with NHS hospitals over the bill and me insisting we pay our way is content worthy of a comedy sitcom. I even had an NHS manager tell me that because I've got an NHS number I don't need to pay. No, I'm not a resident and I have the best health insurance anyone could ever want with 100% of costs paid for worldwide. I told the manager, please bill me at least £4K not the £250 they had billed otherwise it would make the other bills we had from Canada and Denmark seem too big!

Also American healthcare is not that bad at all. I've lived here 10 years and had three babies. First one in 2011 cost $50. Third one last year cost $6,500, thanks to Obamacare. Our annual premium for a family in 2011 was $6k. Today our annual premium is now $30k a year. Obamacare has completely failed to address the issues which result in healthcare here being so high compared to the rest of the world. Aetna have pulled out of the healthcare exchange and other insurance companies are looking to do the same. It's why Trump is looking to remove Obamacare. No one dare criticize Obama but truth be told he did a terrible job with healthcare for the vast majority of Americans and the effect of this policy is only just starting to be seen.

I don't like Trump but Obamacare has got to be replaced. If they can go back to what we had in 2011 and tweek it so pharma companies can't price gouge Americans, no pre existing condition clauses for all (used to be for offered for government programs and where more than 50 employees) and limit the reach of lawyers, the cost would plumet and be affordable again for the vast majority. Those who isn't affordable for would be covered by Medicaid anyway.

The question about what would happen here if there was a terrorist attack like Manchester, the federal government normally releases money to pay all medical costs in full. That is what happened after 9/11. There was a fight for releasing additional funds for emergency responders who worked in the area after 9/11 doing the clean up and local residents who had lasting effects. They were not covered by the initial funding because they were not injured in the actual attack. HC likes to claim she was instrumental in getting funding sorted. Actually it was the mayor who pushed it and because he was republican no one from the democracts would reach across the table and work with him. HC came in as the savior. I know from where I worked in 2015, my employer,an investment bank not affected by the attack, was paying cash to the hospitals to cover medical expenses for people to get the treatment they needed.

Sorry to bump a thread that is a few days old but I felt the need to post to hackmum and it took a few days for my new registration to come through. I used to post here a few years ago as cantspell but left and just lurkered.
Now I want to tell hackmum a story. The last page is not written yet but we know what it will say. Three weeks ago everything was fine but on the Monday my husband woke up with a sharp unstandable pain in his hip. He thought he might have pulled a muscle or something minor. Lucky for us the doctor was concerned about possible blood clot so up to the hospital he want for a scan. 2 hours later our world fell apart as cancer was found. He has stage 4 colon cancer which has spread from his colon to his liver and bones. The pain was the cancer fracturing his pelvis. He were told he was too advanced to cure but maybe could buy some time with chemo. On furture investigation it is to advanced and there is little they can do. We have been given a prognosis of a couple of months at best. My husband is 59. Looks first and healthy but is infact a very sick man and has been for a while. This cancer could have been growing and spreading for 20 years without our knowledge or any symptoms. If he had been offered a screen test it could have saved him or given him a chance at more time. Colon cancer is the second largest killer for both men and women but the awareness is practical non existent.
We all see the pink ribbons and know they mean. But when have you seen a blue and even if you did do you know what it means? And yet even as a woman you are more likely to die of a colon cancer than a breast. Don't be stupid go to the screening offered. Don't become us because quite frankly my life sucks at the moment.
And to anyone else reading this who is offered screening please go as it is unlikely anyone will know anything is wrong until it is too late. This is often a silent killer don't let it get you.

And as to the question of the NHS they have been wonderful. Cannot fault them. We could moan about having to hang around for appointments but we won't as they have squeezed us in where there was no space. Phone calls with updates for appointments, referral to hospital care in the community and seen 2 days later at home. Pain meds sorted and palatine care put in place. Don't knock the NHS until you have had to use every service it provides. End of life care is just as important as how long you wait to see a doctor for your various veins.

cantspell I'm so sorry to hear your shocking news Bowel
Cancer is a nasty silent little bugger doing its dirty work on the quiet.
Thinking about you and your husband

Thankyou missy
You are right bowel cancers are nasty silent buggers that take too many and some could be saved that if they took up the screening. It kills just as many women as man but women who happily go along for Breast screening and smear tests don't take up the bowel screening when it is the bowel that is more likely to kill them.
Do they think the NHS offer these things as they have nothing better to do?