to report after school incident to police

[vickibee]

I went to collect my son from school yesterday (he is 10 and has HF ASD he is being supported in school with social difficulties), walking back to car a class mates Granddad stepped out of his vehicle and hurled abuse at me following a playtime incident between my DS and his GS. Gs had complained to him that my son had fell on him on school field and hurt his leg. He was stood about a foot away from me staring me right in the face and shouting at me. no swearing or threats but I felt intimidated. my Ds ran ahead and waited by our car 50 yards away. He said my sons behaviour was out of control and he demanded that I should keep him away from his GS. I was a disgrace for a parent if I allowed these behaviours etc. He was trying to block my way but I got through and my son and I went back to school to report to HT. She seemed very supportive and said she will look into matters today but should I report to police?

People still are truly ignorant of Autism and other invisible disabilities.

My DN is Autistic. He likes to touch things. Not always ideal. When he was at mainstream school, both him and Dsis got some filthy looks. These are from grown adults to a child. Either they are just to thick understand or are just so ignorant, there is no helping them understand.

OP, if the confrontation made you fear that he might hit you, the fear in itself constitutes common assault as another poster has already suggested.

I would just like to clarify that this could potentially be a police matter depending on the degree of aggression and the words used. It's not likely to result in anything like an arrest however the suspect may be served with a harassment warning notice. ( this is an informal resolution which may not be used outside of the Met.. I'm not sure). If there are any other incidents then you may be able to show a course of conduct and take more action. However, the behaviour was directed to the mother and not the child which I would consider is there not a " hate crime" as such. Finally it's not very helpful to use abbreviations like POA and HOCR since these would not generally be understood outside of law / law enforcement circles.

OP I'm afraid this isn't the type of thing the police will actually look into, it wasn't pleasant but it wasn't a crime and you have no evidence. The police don't have time to deal with petty disagreements. Everyone gets given a crime reference number, it doesn't mean anything will come of your call.

I appreciate it may be scary but in light of what has just gone on don't you think the police may actually have better things to do then investigate a non crime

Vicki if you're still reading, I'm sorry you've been subject to such ignorance on here. Some very unkind comments (not to mention assumptions) made about a young boy who has a disability. Not to mention the side order of sleekit victim blaming.

I can appreciate why you feel shaken and I'm glad police took a note of this for you, even if nothing comes of it. What a thoroughly unpleasant man.

Hope you, and your DS, are both OK

OP, glad you reported. There is some very strange advice here on the thread. I would suggest that you may well have felt harassed, alarmed or distressed at the man's actions which would constitute a Public Order Offence. Ignore the " police have better things to do " comments. If you feel you have been a victim of crime, then the police should record and investigate as appropriate. It may be you do not wish to support an investigation, then there will be no further action. Don't be intimidated by the uneducated and certainly not by folks on the internet who have no idea what you experienced and how it made you feel.

Nancy Oh.....you're "afraid they won't do anything" are you?? Well your opinion doesn't matter since OP's already reported and been listened to does it? No.

If GP are collecting children then this must have been authorised by school - I would tell school that you insist they talk with the GP as you now feel unsafe to drop and collect and that if they won't deal with it you will contact police and make a formal complaint. The school will not want this to happen and will deal with the matter more seriously. The school have every right to ban an aggressive adult from the premises and he needs to be given a clear warning that this will happen if he verbally attacks you again.

Did it happen on school property? In which case the school can ban the grandfather from coming onto their premises.

If you have to park outside the school, is there anyway you can drive onto the property to collect your DS so you don't have to interact with the grandfather or the boy's parents?

At least the school know that this boy has form for attempting to get your DS into trouble.

As someone who works with autistic children (among others), I'm disappointed that some posts have been so quickly deleted.

Just because your child has a disability, should not mean that you should be shielded from an opinion you may disagree with. It does a disservice to all involved, not least the child.

Shouting "disablist" and having a post removed simply because you disagree is a shame. Offensive posts should be moderated. Creating an ersatz environment on AIBU (known for its forthrightness) where someone like the OP mustn't be offended or hear differing viewpoints is blinkered, short sighted and a shame.

I would suggest that you may well have felt harassed, alarmed or distressed at the man's actions which would constitute a Public Order Offence

No it wouldn't!! The legislation is very clear. The OP herself says he wasn't swearing or threatening. Since posters are determined to ignore those who actually know what they're talking about and are to lazy/arrogant to actually check. Here's the legislation for S5 POA

1)A person is guilty of an offence if he—

(a)uses threatening [F1or abusive] words or behaviour, or disorderly behaviour, or

(b)displays any writing, sign or other visible representation which is threatening [F1or abusive],

within the hearing or sight of a person likely to be caused harassment, alarm or distress thereby.
(2)An offence under this section may be committed in a public or a private place, except that no offence is committed where the words or behaviour are used, or the writing, sign or other visible representation is displayed, by a person inside a dwelling and the other person is also inside that or another dwelling.

1a (f) under charging standards would not include be shouted at.

Spiritedlondon. How could the male be issued with a harassment warning/PIN? This has been a one off incident. Any person issuing a PIN in these exact circumstances would be having a meeting with professional standards very quickly. It would be a massive abuse of process.

Devoruk there is no moderation here which is why some posts have been deleted.
Posters jumping straight to the 'your child nusr have behaviour which caused the situation in school".
Views like that are both ignorant and seek to blame the child. Autism must = behavioural issues is the underlying message.
Yes as a parent with an autistic child I am sick of such views. My child was subjected to prolonged bullying in the last two years of primary school by one child who could seemingly do no wrong. Her bullying was underhand and on going. She was first to shout and rage to her parents though when occasionally my son retaliated. Most of the time he left school pale and shutdown.

Okay so it's a school issue but I do get pretty sick of people automatically assuming it is the autistic child at fault.

I think the OP was clear about her child's difficulties in understanding and equally clear that he is generally well behaved and has few issues. This didn't stop some posters automatically diving in and blaming her child.
And yes I reported those posts because as a parent I am sick of seeing bullies excused because the other child is autistic and might not be able to express what occurred clearly.

I've not read all the posts and I sense I'm going against the grain but yes in your shoes id consider reporting to the police - for many reasons. Many posters will talk about how us non-lawyers non-police don't understand stand legal terms (and actually I've found many police and lawyers don't either) but you may not know for sure unless you report it. And if my non-expert opinion is with anything - from what you've said this incident may be considered as a breach of the peace

Alfie - i left the thread because I was saddened by some of the comments.
I read this is my child and some of the stuff ring so true, he never gets play invites of party invites and it makes him so sad inside. He pretends it doesn't matter but it does. The parents are less accepting than the kids and keep their kids away from the freak. His self-esteem is so low because of all this stuff. I repeat he is not violent, or mailicious in fact he is too trusting and leaves himself open to ridicule and bullying. He is irritating and annoying towards other kids, talks at them incessently when they are not interested, make silly noises at them and stuff like that. School have said similar and have complimented him on despite his diffuclties how well mannered and polite he is in school so he is not such a bad lad afterall. Just one who needs others to understand and accept him the way he is

Breach of the peace is a civil not criminal matter

Breach of the peace is criminal in Scotland. In my experience

Alfie, actually I do have some knowledge actually from working on public sector projects on services for children with autism. And I know enough to know that there is reams and reams of academic research doing what I suggested which was managment of violent behaviour in children with ASD (towards themselves as well as others) by parents and professionals. I also know enough to know that for professionals to take the attitude that any violent incidents must be the fault of the person hurt would be extremely poor practice. I also know that the best and most effective solutions for children in mainstream schools are ones which balance the needs of the child with ASD with those of the rest of the children. So approaching situations like this with an attitude that it must be the fault of the other child and they must put up with it isn't effective.

I wasn't going to mention it as I know its not normally the done thing but I will. I advanced searched the OP and she has previously posted that her son has been violent towards other children at school when he was as young as 5. So I don't necessarily think it's as clear cut as 'special snowflakes' deliberately making him do it as I doubt reception age children are even capable of being aware they could do that or were doing it. Its definitely a possibility here that this is a long term problem and the school are not managing it. I don't even think the OP is being fair to her own son by refusing to consider the potential there is an issue as it might mean he doesn't get some support he needs.

The GF dealt with it badly because his issue is with the school. But I can understand someone's frustration if they feel an issue hasn't been dealt with properly for 5 years.

Besides, even if the other child is 'winding him up' before these incidents that's something the school needs to deal with too. Saying nothing's happened and blaming the other child without looking any deeper or having input from the school isn't really fair. Besides, I'm sure you know that sometimes in these cases the 'winding up' can be non-intentional innocent behaviour like breaking a rule or lining up in the wrong place or doing something at the wrong time.

And I don't think any professional worth their salt would ever dismiss allegations of violent incidents with 'Well he has a disability so you must have asked for it and have to put up with it' no matter how much some MNers want them to.

Alfieisnoisy

I think you understood what I meant by moderation vs moderators deleting posts. It amounts to the same thing.

Posters jumping straight to the 'your child Must have behaviour which caused the situation in school' but these opinions wouldn't have been deleted for a typical child QED the OP is being 'shielded' because of her son's difficulties and that isn't fair. If you post on AIBU, you're asking for differing view points. If you want lots of people telling you that you're right and the world is wrong then find some millennials for a yoga session.

"when occasionally my son retaliated"

Retaliation is retaliation. Every child is held to different standards but physical retaliation needs to be an uncrossed line. Last week, I used the phrase "you idiot, now you'll be punished too" when a child crossed that retaliation threshold. It sums it up.

"This didn't stop some posters automatically diving in and blaming her child."

No. It didn't stop people questioning what happened and looking to suggest alternatives to an OP talking about their angel child who does no wrong etc. Again, exactly the same way any other OP would be.

You want to stop the parent of any child with disabilities being questioned. That isn't the way it works in real life and the internet sure as hell isn't a safe space for back-rubbing, hand-holding and filtered opinions.

The bullying you talk about needs considered separately to your child's problems. The grandparent's behaviour (in the OP) needs to be considered outside of the OP's circumstances. If a GC is being treated badly by the OP's son that that's what they care about. No child is perfect. The OP thinks their child is and that's improbable and deleting posts which question this point of view shouldn't be deleted. Obviously you think they should and nothing which goes against your ideas should be allowed to be written, but you're wrong.

Vickibee

I sympathise. I really do. Trust me though, your child does wrong as does any other and going through life thinking they're perfect and never in the wrong will do neither of you any favours.

"Leaving a thread" because you don't like some comments won't expose you to ideas and thoughts beyond your own. It may be hard to read or think about, but you'll have a wider idea of the situation by reading and thinking about it all.

In my experience, children get more tolerant of "irritating and annoying" children with age. People are accepted for their idiosyncrasies. Sometimes celebrated for them.

Love all these people who know all about autism because they work with autistic children/adults. Try living with it and dealing with the crap said by other parents for a while. Trust me you soon change your ideas.

No you do NOT hold an autistic child to the same expectations as an NT child because they have significant difficulties understanding and processing things.

And while I don't want my child retaliating physically or any other way I WILL defend his right to retaliate when bullying is ongoing and relentless. I will always pick him up on physical retaliation....always while recognising he doesn't have the same social norms as other children. He is now 14 and he is getting there ...a place which most NT children reach by age 7.

In class he just wants to be left alone....a child constantly goading him by poking him, making crude faces, making silly noises because she knows he gets upset by certain sounds causes significant issues. My son can cope with a certain amount but builds up to a massive explosion the longer it goes on. Once he explodes a red mist descends and he rages. These days those rages take the form of some very bad language but when younger he might occasionally hit out at annoying NT child. This happened twice in the last two years of primary school...twice so not a weekly or regular occurrence.

Yes hitting out is wrong, yes he was told this and yes annoying NT child was told constantly to leave him alone. Didn't stop her parents raging at me youth so forgive me if I have limited tolerance on threads like these when posters jump straight to "what did your child do to provoke it"? It's the equivalent of them saying "your child is the odd one so they must have done something" when the OP had said clearly that her son had not actually fallen on this child.

And that's it. I am out of here except for saying that it's that kind of ignorance that made me move my son to a special school. At least I now talk to parents who DO understand and "get it".

Vickiebee, very sorry about some of the horrendous comments on this thread, many of which are utterly unacceptable. I have posted before with issues with my DS1 who we suspected had ASD but didn't and I was subjected to a similar torrent of abuse, misunderstandings, judgements, criticisms etc, to the extent that I felt physically shaken. It's very sad that people hijack what it supposed to be a place where people come for support with personal attacks. I actually no longer post on MN about my son for this reason. There are a lot of people where who should be ashamed of themselves.

This man's behaviour was clearly unacceptable and I too would have reported it to the school and to the police. It is potentially ABH, not harassment, as others have pointed out. I am a solicitor although don't specialise in this field so do have some idea what I am talking about. The police but not do much or charge this man but it will be kept on file and may make this man think twice before he behaves like this again. If he wanted to say something he should have discussed it with the school or approached you respectfully. There is absolutely no excuse.

And for those people who go trawling through mumsnet looking for evidence of other posts to support their attacks, you clearly have way too much time on your hands. Get a life.