AIBU disabled parking and toilets

[sashh]

OK this is not exactly ATAT but, I have a disability and a blue badge. I just wondered how many other people have been given excuses by apparently (yes I know there are hidden disabilities, but people with genuine need tend not to mumble excuses) able bodies people using the blue badge spaces and the accessible toilet.

I've waited outside a toilet because someone was getting changed to go out after work(twice, different places.)

Been stopped from going in to the accessible toilet by a woman with a toddler and a very loud, "Excuse me..." looks at toddler, then notices my walking stick and says, "Oh go on".

Had someone rattle the handle to the extend I was scared to open the door because I thought I would break my wrist while the handle was rattled because their child needed to change.

Not be able to pay my rent because the only accessible bays near the bank were all taken by Xmas shoppers with no blue badges and my housing benefit was paid by cheque so I couldn't get the money i to my account before my rent went out.

Not able to shop if it's raining because then all the blue badge spaces are taken by cars without badges.

I'll probably remember a few more.

Mumsnet exists to make parents lives easier. Okay, I'll buy that.

Accessible toilets (and accessible buses, and accessible parking spaces) do not exist to make parents lives easier. They exist so that actual disabled people can have a shot at doing the things we all do without thinking twice about it.

People have been having babies for millennia without accessible toilets (and accessible buses, and accessible parking spaces). They just got on with it, because sometimes, that's what you have to do.

Actual disabled people campaigned for the concessions they have, and they fought long and hard to get them. I think it's so disgustingly and outrageously unfair that they should go through all that to try and make the world a little easier for them to navigate, only to have all those concessions rudely and selfishly taken over by parents - parents who COULD just get on with it, but apparently can't be bothered.

I am not, of course, talking about parents of disabled children. That is not up for debate. If your child needs the concessions, and you are their caregiver, then these are the places you are SUPPOSED to be.

If your child is otherwise healthy and their only "limitation" is that they are very young, then you should just have to get on with it. Without selfishly hording the resources and concessions meant for people who actually need them, and aren't just being lazy. Without thinking you're special because you had a baby - because as I said, people have being doing that for millennia, so you are absolutely NOT special. Without declaring, whether verbally or through your actions, that your comfort and convenience are somehow more important than a disabled person's ability to leave the house at all.

Mumsnet might exist to make parents lives easier, but as for the rest? Don't be so bloody selfish.

I facepalm so hard when people say "Well if blue badge users use P&C spaces when the BB spaces are full, I'll use BB spaces when the P&C are full!", I think one day my hand might go right through my head. How much of an entitled arsehole do you have to be to think that your needs as a parent are equal to or greater than the needs of someone with a disability?

It's like the prams on buses debate. That one always brings out the disablist fuckers too.

Although I do like the suggestion that people who genuinely need to use accessible loos won't mumble excuses. I'll try it next time I'm in a can't wait situation. "I get where you're coming from love, but this restaurant's cross-contamination policies are clearly lacking as I'm about to shit myself and it isn't going to be pretty", at the top of my voice righty-ho.

In the words of a very old song faith: I think I love you!

People have been having babies for millennia without accessible toilets (and accessible buses, and accessible parking spaces). They just got on with it, because sometimes, that's what you have to do.

But we no longer have to do this, because we have accessible toilets. They are designed for anybody with access issues. I can't understand why anyone would have a problem with that.

Because too many people think "convenience issues" are the same thing as "access issues", and they simply are not.

You can't understand why anyone would have a problem with disabled people being left in discomfort and possibly soiling themselves just so parents don't have to do a little bit of planning to avoid using the facilities not designed for them? Seriously?

faith great post

In the garage by me the disabled loos are also the ladies AND the baby changing. Men have a seperate one.

I don't use the disabled loo unless it is the cubicle style ones (in the same bit as the other ones) and tbh In a q, if that one is the next one that comes free I'm in there before I've even realised.

Seperate ones are a no-go unless you actually need to use them.

Great post faith

Maybe it would be better to campaign for more accessible toilets instead of being nasty online about people who use them?!

You're not actually serious, are you?😮 Please tell me if I've misunderstood!

You want the people who spent years campaigning for accessible toilets, to campaign for MORE accessible toilets so those people WITHOUT disabilities can continue abusing them? Maybe you'd like people with disabilities to campaign for more pram spaces on buses, while they're at it, just to save the parents from doing it? After all the parents won't bother their arse because their inconvenience is temporary, unlike having a disability.

Altalknobaby - "You can't use a cubicle and leave a baby in a pushchair outside"

Yes you can. Do you think babies are routinely stolen?

I think accessible toilets are fine to be used by whoever needs them - including able bodied people when there is a huge queue and nobody with a disability waiting. They are accessible because of space and adaptation for those with limited mobility and not necessarily as a priority in queue.
My sister is reliant on a wheelchair and cannot walk at all. She's not incontinent though and is perfectly capable of waiting her turn in a queue like anyone else. A child under four usually isn't. The priority should be the little one.
Our local M and S has solved the issue by making all their loos accessible and unisex. All problems solved.

Altalknobaby - "You can't use a cubicle and leave a baby in a pushchair outside"

Yes you can. Or alternatively, you can wait a little/plan your outing a little better. You just don't want to.

You could:

• pee with the door open, so you can keep an eye on the baby in the pushchair that doesn't fit in the cubicle.
• take the baby out of the pushchair, and hold them on your lap while you pee.
• plan your journey a little better - even if that sometimes involves waiting until you get home to use the restroom.

But a disabled person doesn't have the luxury of

• peeing with the door open, so they can see their wheelchair that doesn't fit in the cubicle. How would they get from chair to commode? (Some can walk a few steps, I know. Many can't.)
• holding the wheelchair on their lap while they pee (?!!!??!???)
• planning their journey a little better - some people, when they have to go, it needs to be NOW, because they have continence issues.

So there are several ways around this issue of toileting in public - for YOU. You, able bodied and continent.

Disabled people have one way around the issue of toileting in public. They need to use the accessible restrooms, which, for the umpteenth time, are accessible for the disabled. Not for lazy, convenience seeking parents and other self-absorbed, solipsistic people.

Only, when people like YOU are taking them up, because you're so self-righteously convinced that your CONVENIENCE should take precedence, that means disabled people don't get to use them. Which, in many cases, means they cannot go out, because going out means taking the risk that they will be caught short thanks to people like you.

After having children and the number of people who will have seen various parts of your intimate anatomy, are women really getting het up about peeing with a door open but blocked by a pushchair? I've lost count of the times I've done this (by the way, the end cubicle is usually the best for this as you're less in the way). No one sees anything if you're sensible. But I guess you are the people who would also get het up about a woman breastfeeding in public.

I do use the combined disabled/baby change toilet when needed. I loathe that so many places have decided to lump disabled, baby change and women's toilets together. Why not make the men's equally as large and multi use? Why not make all toilets large enough and multiuse? What about the people who have to plan their outings around being able to find a place suitable to change doubly incontinent adults/anyone bigger than about 2 years old.

Disabled people fight for a whole lot more in order to be able to have a 'normal' day out.

why do posters not ask mn hq to start a campaign
one to get family toilets
it will take years and by then your children will be grown up, but go on give up your time.
i often post that i wonder what will happen with the changing places toilets. will parents assume they are theirs as well?

For those who aren't sure how to go about getting a radar key- I got mine through my council, I just needed to show proof of address (to confirm I was resident in the council area) and proof of disability.

The key scheme website points out that keys off eBay or the man in the pub are likely to be illegal copies which not only might not work in the lock, but can actually result in the lock breaking and stopping legitimate key holders from gaining access.

So I hope if any mnetters with dodgy keys are reading this, they stop using them!

*You can't use a cubicle and leave a baby in a pushchair outside"

Yes you can. Do you think babies are routinely stolen?*
It doesn't have to be routine, it simply has to be a possibility. Or for them to vomit and choke on it, or someone else to come over and take something off the pram, a child to come over and poke the baby etc.

However I'm not shy so will pull him half way into the cubicle and let everyone else look if they really want to.

However most baby change is in the disabled toilets near me and some toilet simply aren't big enough to totally pushchair outside without totally blocking everyone else. At hospital its near impossible to get a standard pram in the ladies loos, a double is impossible. Leaving the double buggy in the corridor of a busy children hospital could be catastrophic.

Blue badge spaces however have no such Grey areas alto access to blue badges for families like the earlier poster whose son has autism should be easier

why do posters not ask mn hq to start a campaign
one to get family toilets
it will take years and by then your children will be grown up, but go on give up your time

*what if every parent did that alltalk?

did you not read the recent thread on this?*

And what, indeed, if every mum did, Fanjo?

Hardly likely to be massive consequences is there? Chances are that there's a baby changing facility in there too, and a disabled person would need to wait longer in that case, than with a mum with pushchair in there....

A lot of places are starting to get the idea and put family toilets in.

Off the top of my head, local Asda has large family room (outside main female toilet, next to disabled). Outlet store near me has an extra large cubicle inside the ladies' with 2 toilets (1 standard, 1 child) and sink. On holiday we went into an arcade with a family cubicle outside the ladies'. The local shopping centre (run by a large chain) has various family facilities, including a family room with playpen, changing stations, bottle warmer, microwave, individual cubicles with comfy chairs and curtains for feeding, and a double toilet cubicle.

I agree chronically

I think in a lot of cases it comes down to parents doing the sensible thing and planning ahead, knowing where they are going and which toilets are the best like disabled people have to do every time the leave the house

No need for another thread on this.
Use common sense and basic courtesy and there's no problem.

(Talking about the loos, not the parking)

Had my ten second warning today. I was in the car but just going past a place I knew had a loo. Got there, dashed in, got a mouthful from a woman who (despite there being two cubicles through the adjacent door) told me to fuck off and get in the queue because she wanted to use the disabled loo to change her top. I pointed out the other two loos, but she needed the room and then she had a go at me for farting. When I informed her that actually I was shitting myself because she was in my way she gave me a filthy look, told me I was disgusting and then went in the only loo, the disabled one, with a sink. My dd has very kindly washed my car seat whilst I was in the shower. You know what I think. I think she was a fucking selfish bitch. I'm fed up with this. If the baby change isn't in there, and there is no valid reason for you to use the accessible loo, please don't use it. It's not kind and it's not fair.