Is this neglectful or just shit parenting? Or fine?

[NickyNickname123]

I have name changed.
Single parent to 11 year old DS.
DS is in year 7.
DS gets up, gets own breakfast, makes his lunch, makes lunch for parent.
Parent leaves the house at 7am.
DS gets self ready, goes to school.
Comes home, parent home some days 7, some days 6.
DS expected to feed self, parent doesn't get much food in but says DS can make pasta or toast.

DS gets money from grandparents for school lunch - 8 months into school term parent suddenly asks if they are having school meals - hasn't thought to check until now.

Parent has now decided to take up a new hobby for the next 8 weeks - involving being out of the house from 8-11pm three nights per week.

Parent never cleans or tidies, when DS asks for help he is shouted at or sent to his room.

Neglectful? Or just shit parenting?

Please call the NSPCC, they will be able to help.

It sounds utterly utterly soul destroying for that youngster could the grandparents spend the evenings with him or be there to make his tea?

There is nothing wrong with parts of this. 11 yr old getting up, making own breakfast and lunch, getting ready and leaving for school is all fine.

Coming home and parent not home until 6 or 7 isn't ideal, but I would imagine it's common- there isn't childcare for parents of secondary school aged children and that's how long jobs are. From that, I guess making own tea might be fairly normal too.

I didn't understand the part about the school lunches as you said the child was making his lunch, so why is he having lunch at school too?

The hobby part and being out until 11 is wrong. Not having enough food is wrong - if it's true and not it's not that it's just easier for the child to make pasta or beans on toast (easy meals) .

"Never cleans or tidy" never? Or not to person who reports this standard? Being shouted at when asking for help- what context? A stropping "you've got to help he do this!" Being shouted at? Or a "please can you help me do this"?

I'm not saying it's not a neglectful parent, I'm just trying to see another perspective for you.

I can't imagine going out and leaving my eleven year old from 8-11pm of an evening. He would be scared. Can the grandparents let the school know they are basically supporting him emotionally and financially? Is there any way he could go to grandparents straight from school and have some tea there? They could drop him home when parent is due back.

How about grandparents stay when mum at hobby? If they want to be involved. Perhaps drop by after school with tea cooked and stay till mum gets home. My MIL and FIL will do this, come to our house and look after DS, drop off some tea for us as well. They know we struggle, I'm disabled and DH has depression. We both work FT and couldn't if we didn't have support if grandparents. And the bond they have with my son is so strong and lovely to witness.

I've assumed you are Grandma, as you know so much about the situation. Can you step up to bridge gaps while mum gets professional support?

I think it's very sad. Not so much what he's expected to 'do', but the lack of emotional warmth from the parent.

The fact the child is desperate to live with GP's is the key factor here and if I were you I'd be moving heaven & earth to make it happen. Irrespective of who the parent is. Obviously, only if the GP's are up for it.

In what world will the NSPCC be able to do anything?

All OP could possibly do is report every single thing to Ss and even then, I am doubtful they will be able to get involved. As I said previously this probably wouldn't meet the threshold for help. At most he would be put on a CIN plan which is pretty much voluntary for parents so if the parent did not want to engage the case would probably be closed.

I think this child is in an awful situation and if I was op I too would be trying anything I could to help this child. Reality and experience tells me that there is very little practically she can do.

Burn- the parent is having the child make the parents' lunch for them

burns never. Never picks up a single thing. Makes a meal and leaves every pan, every item, every crumb on the kitchen surfaces.
Takes clothes off in the middle of the living room floor and leaves them there.

Grandparents pick dS up once per week to take him to his hobby - Grandmother at this point has a basic tidy up and takes away any of DS's washing.

This has kept DS just above the threshold for school picking up on it.

Does the child see the non biological parent? Could the grandparents sometimes be at the child's house after school or provide before & after school childcare?

I am not grandparent.

I have tried absolutely everything to get someone to listen to me, but grandparents clean the house before the social worker turns up, DS is too scared to say how he feels to a professional, and Grandparents are worried about the implications for DS if they say anything themselves.

Realistically DS would not meet the criteria anyway, but it is so sad that's dS wants to live with Grandparents, they are the only ones doing any care anyway, but parent just won't even entertain it.

I think it's not that uncommon once children reach secondary age.

DS tells me that a lot of his friends have parents who work and who leave the house before they go to school thus putting the responsibility on them to get themselves ready etc. I also know of at least one who has to be home by a certain time in order to put dinner in the oven for when the parents get home.

I couldn't imagine doing it but many parents have to work and once they reach secondary there is no childcare available.

NSPCC really won't do anything.

Non biological parent cannot see DS as parent ha forbidden it due to very acrimonious split.

Are you the other parent?

Op would the grandparents be willing to fight with the parent through legal means to gain access to the child?

That's really sad. :(
It's not any one thing, it's the total picture that isn't right.

Surely something can be done? The grandparents and OP all want to help, why should one selfish person be allowed to ruin a childs childhood by refusing any help? He deserves better and in another few years the damage could be too much to un-do. He's still a child at the moment. Once he gets into his teenage years, who knows what he might get up to in the evenings without anyone looking out for him. This could really escalate. Grandparents should insist on going round for those long evenings, stuff what parent thinks about it! Poor boy, at least he has grandparents who love him and want the best for him, he needs them to sort this out.

How long ago was it you last reported to ss? Report again with a new concern; if you mention the same concern as before they are more likely to brush it off as it has been looked in to already. The parent is treating the ds like he's a cat or something; wants him to be there in the mornings ffs. I say cat, because you couldn't really get away with treating a dog like this.

There are childcare options; the parent could hire someone to be there after school.

Thank you all. You have reassured me that I am not going mad, this really isn't ok.

Sounds like my childhood, although my mother was also a functioning alcoholic.

Please don't give up on this child, this will affect him for the rest of his life.

Can you speak to the grandparents so they stop facilitating the mother's neglect? Even if only to not tidy before SS comes? My grandparents probably saved my sanity, they are the only people I remember being kind to me as a child, but they also facilitated my mother's neglect by covering it up and pretending it didn't happen.

Some of its ok.

Making own lunch and getting self up and ready for school. Especially as most secondary kids are out of the house at 7.30/7.45am themselves.

Also being home alone for 2 hours after school would be considered ok.

But the whole picture of not having food or basic hygiene needs met (washing/ clean kitchen etc) makes its neglectful imo.

I'm guessing you know the school he attends? I'd contact them and let them know.

Is there any reason if GP are happy for him to live there they could take him after school for a few hours until mum is home from work and make sure he's fed etc? Also on the nights she's at her hobby he could just stay at GP. Mum is hardly going to call anyone herself to get him home as it reflects too much on her. Her DS or GP should just text to say he's there for the night to cover their own backs.

I know someone who hardly ever sees their mum because she is always out - usually working. The teenager is now an attention seeking, immature 17 year old, who hero worships some of the teachers because they get more attention from the teachers than their mother.

Fucking awful and yes, neglect! They should be ashamed of themselves. What a twat. Time something is said/done don't you think?!

neglect pure and simple