To think scrapping tuition fees is a terrible idea

[bumbleymummy]

Just that really. Corbin saying he's going to scrap fees from September. Bloody stupid idea and something else that we can't afford to pay for.

Apart from some courses where there is a need, such as engineering, nursing, teaching, social work etc, there should be fees.

I can't fathom why Labour are perpetuating the idea that everyone should want to go to university - learning a trade is just as worthy. Ok - if everyone goes to university who will build our homes?

Hardship funds are usually loans.

I come from a very poor family. I would never have went to University if it meant getting into debt. Going was hard enough when all my friends thought going to Uni was something only posh people did, and when my life experiences were so different from most people on my degree.

When I went,fees were something like £1,500 a year, which my dad paid directly. I then got a loan of about £3600 a year which had to cover everything else including rent. Looking back, I've no idea how I managed to survive, or to have as much fun as I did with so little money (blackcurrant and soda, I'm looking in your direction!) I did always get holiday jobs though and saved up a bit then. I guess I didn't each much besides pasta and pesto either.

Erm, I think you should do some research. Every university has hardship funds that are grants. This is part of the deal with the £9k tuition fees. Certainly the ones my friends received were. I know universities provide short term loans, but these are always only up to a small amount and they say it has to be paid back when student loan kicks in within 10days, which they only give to tie over students. They certainly would never loan to those that really are in debt. And these are not hardship funds which are grants. Some scholarships I have seen are over £20k as well. All universities have provisions for poorer students.

I listened to a good debate on the radio about this. Points made against the policy were

• In Scotland the number of places has been cut for Scottish students because they don't pay - however, at my DCs school they say to put Scottish unis on the list because they give nearly 100% of English applicants offers because they pay fees (and their stats bear this out)
• the lack of fairness that someone who does not go to uni ends up subsidising someone else who will reap the benefit of that higher education and earn more
• £11 billion per year cost
• fees have not caused a reduction of applicants from 'disadvantaged' families, in fact those numbers are currently at an all time high
• when we had a no fees set up c10% of the population went to uni compared to now where c45% go, so the scale of funding is of a different magnitude
• if you never earn a huge salary post graduation, you don't pay the debt back anyway

Sorry if these points were made earlier.

I agree with comments made on early pages that NHS/teaching related degrees should be free (I think the Cons manifesto does give debt relief for teaching.....will check) or at least debt in written off if you work in NHS/teaching for a period of time maybe?

This feels like an opportunistic vote grabber...what's in place from Labour for young people who don't choose the uni route?

YADBU.

My mentee has 17 As GCSEs and predicted all As at A-level. Unless he can get one of only 6 single scholarships at his chosen university, he can't afford to go to university and wont be going. It is very sad and dire.

Its a great idea, we were going to have to give up one of our holidays every year for four years to pay for our little darling to go to Oxford. Thank god Corbyn has come along, it would have been totally unfair to ask our little darling him to start his career as an investment banker with student loans, after all he was top of his class. The six month internship we have lined up for him will be unpaid and he will have to slum it for while, which is punishment enough, although of course we will get him a nice flat to stay in but he wont be able to come yachting until he has finished, so its a mixed bag.

A few pennies on income tax for the workers should cover the cost of it all, which wont affect us as we have a good accountant obviously. We paid enough VAT when the builders re-roofed a few of our houses last year, it was extortionate and I bet they didn't even declare it, so that will compensate them a little bit for the extra tax they will pay.

Three cheers for Corbyn, he is a top banana.

SunEgg, why can't he get a loan like others do?

My mentee has 17 As GCSEs and predicted all As at A-level. Unless he can get one of only 6 single scholarships at his chosen university, he can't afford to go to university and wont be going. It is very sad and dire.

Why can't he get a loan? He's clearly clever enough to walk into a very high paid job if he wanted

Lol Jamie

My very well off ILS are rubbing their hands in glee at the idea of Corbyn getting in. Free health, free social care, winter fuel allowance, free school meals for their grand kids. And they'll be able to keep their enormous old house while the govt pay for everything!

• It's not a financially crazy idea. Germany (known for its fiscal prudence and strong economy!) thinks it's a good investment.
• It doesn't devalue tertiary education and make everyone go to university whether they're suited to it or not. We HAD free tuition. It didn't do this! Othe factors do, like the availability of great vocational training...
• The 'value' of what we learn can't just be measured in economic terms. Many of the greats of our civilisation did things that didn't earn them money, were poor all their lives, yet made enormous contributions to science, art, philosophy, music.

I would feel better if EVERY 17-18yo had a £27k budget (plus living cost loans to cover 3 yrs study) if they went on FT training courses. Why is University so special that kids who already tend to come from financially comfortable backgrounds get such a great deal. It should be available to all young people.

Or if the free tuition fees were means tested & only available to small minority. But Universal just for kids who are already advantaged? Just No.

My mentee has 17 As GCSEs and predicted all As at A-level. Unless he can get one of only 6 single scholarships at his chosen university, he can't afford to go to university and wont be going. It is very sad and dire.

If he's as bright as you say, I never knew anyone could do 17 GCSE's then he should be seeing university as an incredible opportunity. Surely with that many A*'s he is going to stand out in his career and have plenty of opportunities. He would be the ideal candidate to pay off loans.

He can afford to go to university, he doesn't want to take on the debt which will put him in a stronger position going forward. With results like those he can go into a career where his bonus would clear the whole lot in one go.

These loans are so unlikely to be paid back by the average graduate.

The govt sells the loans on then after 30 years, when the loans are written off, the govt repays the same loans (with 30 years worth of interest)...

To me it makes sense to abolish loans and increase tax for the highest earners instead.

We need teachers/nurses/social workers... we don't need to pay double their loans in 30 years when we could just give them free tuition now.

I also have witnessed first hand how poorer high school students are put off by fees. Not good.

Depends on who you consider to be 'higher earners'.

JaimieX 😂*
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You are reading my mind with your post at 21:23!!

If graduates are such a benefit to society that they should be funded by the lower earners, maybe they should have tax cut to reflect the value they put into society - the more you earn, the less you pay due to 'value added'.

Increasing taxes overall isn't fair - approximately 50% go to university these days. Where is the £11bn for the other 50%, the ones not able to make it to university?

It would only be fair if the investment in graduates was being matched with investment in non graduate cohorts of the same age and it is not.

I would feel better if EVERY 17-18yo had a £27k budget (plus living cost loans to cover 3 yrs study) if they went on FT training courses. Why is University so special that kids who already tend to come from financially comfortable backgrounds get such a great deal. It should be available to all young people.

YY

Much fairer for that 'fair' and 'principled' man, who puts 'fairness at the root of all he does' to offer all 18 yr olds a £27k+ windfall.

They could decide for themselves how to use it - uni, college, house deposit, car, beer & fags, whatever.

I'm 99% certain that the 'I'd happily pay more tax' crowd would balk at that idea though...

I may email Jezza & suggest it

I wish all the people saying that you can get grants & scholarships etc knew exactly how little you can get if parents earn above about £30,000. You might be able to get more if you are on a really low income, but there was nothing available for my ds at his uni. Luckily we can manage to pay towards his accommodation (his loan did not even cover half the cost of halls the first year) but if we had more children it would not be possible for us, and he would not have gone.

I wish we had better options - the system needs reform, but not a universal turning back of the clock when a huge number more people are going to university and getting terrible value for money and degrees that aren't helping them significantly in the labour market.

So, those of you who feel a University education / qualification should be paid by the student, when should it start? A levels? Why not?

The root of all this bitter carping is because Labour have no better plan for raising revenue than taxing folk. Of course we should be raising money by exporting goods, producing goods, increased GDP, productivity.

A strong healthy country should be paying to educate its citizens, then reap the reward via productivity , not just taxes.

And.... plenty of parents on benefits get a personal budget for living off.....

The root of my carping is not about tax, it's another area where a huge amount of money is being spent in a blunt way that doesn't help the other 50% of non graduates.

Thought that it's been shown in the US that increased provision of student loans just leads to higher and higher tuition fees (something like 20% over the last five years, after deducting for inflation).

Plus they never really effectively get paid back. It's just another debt mountain waiting to implode.