To think scrapping tuition fees is a terrible idea

[bumbleymummy]

Just that really. Corbin saying he's going to scrap fees from September. Bloody stupid idea and something else that we can't afford to pay for.

I know it's been said before but I'm going to say it again. In Germany university is free. Germany. Not a crazy lefty fantasy world.

I won't be able to afford to send my own kids to university, and due to the devaluation of my wage i can't support them when they are there or indeed, save much towards it

It's really sad that prior to Brexit, British students, by virtue of being EU citizens, could study at European universities for the same fees of a native student. French and German unis have no fees, and some, like Maastricht, teach in English, so you don't even need to learn the language to attend.

British students most likely won't be able to benefit from Erasmus either, any more either.

There's Erasmus world, but it's more complicated.

It sounds very expensive. I had no fees and a maintenance grant (which you did not have to pay back) but that was way back when (1966 - 71) when only a very small percentage of school leavers went to university.

Apparently starting it this year rather than the pledge of 2018 is going to leave an extra 9billion for them to find.

Keep fees. Use the money that would have gone into scrapping fees to make schools better. Therefore poorer people can get better results to compete with the wealthy kids for bonded scholarships which would be offered to address specific skills shortage in the labour market (eg doctors, nurses etc).

Why is nobody in politics even considering this? Maybe I just have a simple mind!!

Yes... why give our young people an education? Lets more money into Trident and Brexit.
Jokes.

YABU
As you were.

Babybarrister - wouldn't that mean that only very high earners would be paying back their 'fees'? At the moment I think you start paying your loan back at 21k, for me it was 15k. By your arrangement it would be over 45k (40% tax bracket)

My kids would be able to go to uni if this was the case. It's beyond us financially despite being A* students

I think it depends entirely on the course....nursing, medicine, social care, law, education etc should attract minimal or even zero fees to encourage students to study. I've desperately wanted to train in nursing after years as a HCA but I need to do a year long access course then 3 years at university, with no income and fees to pay. As a family, we just can't justify the expense.

I think scrapping it for certain degrees, yes, but not all.

Squished, I don't understand.
You will not have to pay anything, your children will get loans like most other students.
How is your children going to university beyond your means?

I remember being horrified when these fees came into force. I don't think they should have been brought in in the first place.
People aren't going to go to university 'just because'. It's still expensive, they'll still end up with student loans.

And even if it did encourage some people to go to uni, how is that a bad thing?

And what about the societal benefits we could reap if £11bn+ was pumped into primary/secondary and non university routes?

Because university is just not free, too many are going and getting poor outcomes, and we are getting a poor return on our societal wide investment.

I agree change is needed, but we need a lot of clever and more specific polices for different areas and not a blanket subsidy to those lucky enough to have got a place at university.

I went to Uni in the good old days, tuition and maintenance grant, all covered. Far fewer people went to Uni, people took it seriously and we had tutorials, small seminars and many lectures each week.

I am horrified by the prescriptive 'teaching to the test' I see my academic friends being forced to deliver, because students are customers,

Scrap tuition fees, scrap pointless degrees at bad Unis, and introduce an institution that teaches promising thinkers and innovators how to be rigorous, creative, critical, analytical and motivated.

Scrap all Unis except RG (and maybe a few more) , pay the tuition fees of those who get a place and provide great professional and training support for everyone else,

It's so easy to collect data these days on what issues are faced for different groups of students or apprentices and tailor fees/bursaries accordingly due to what really is societally useful over and above it being privately optimal for the individual - why do we need a blanket 'free' tuition policy at all?

Babybarrister, but look st the starting salaries mentioned on this thread for vets, architects etc. Those types of jobs require a degree and will (probably) result in higher earners eventually but for several years they will probably be in the 30-40k bracket which doesn't put them in the higher tax bracket to qualify for your proposal but they should be perfectly able to start repaying a percentage of their loan at that stage. It was 15k for quite a few of us!

cath student loans don't cover the cost of living if you have to live away from home.

In Scotland, the maximum loan available to students from households where the income is £34K+ is £4750 per year. Rental properties are often only available on a 12month basis. Student accommodation is very expensive. There might be transport costs, equipment - everything is administered online so students must have either a laptop or pc - etc etc.

Many students work part time, but this can be difficult for students doing demanding courses or with unpaid placements. Or health conditions.

@squished I don't understand what you mean really. I went to university with fees and got loans, no help from parents. My sister is at uni now, no help from parents either as they can't afford it.
Even moneysavingexpert advises parents not to pay fees upfront and if you have the money to give to kids for a mortgage instead, because the loan is paid back like a graduate tax up to the cap of the cost of the loan (or wiped after 30yrs unlike a mortgage). Parents ability to pay or not, doesn't affect it.

Take a look at the info

www.moneysavingexpert.com/students/student-loans-tuition-fees-changes

Universities also have hardship funds which I have known students to take advantage of. Many already have internal scholarships as well.

Average graduate starting salary is £19,000 - £22,000