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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think you can't take his money if you won't let him see his son?

103 replies

Sistersbabydaddydrama · 20/05/2017 17:47

DSis had a baby with a one night stand, they had been friends a long time but just slept together the once.

When DN came along the Bio dad and her raised as co parents, he got her a house (she was homeless) and he stayed in the spare room, did the night feeds etc.

Eventually he moved out but continued to see DN 3/4 times a week and had him every other weekend.

Then DSis got a new fella, moved him in within 1 Month of knowing him, made DN call him dad and cut off nephews real dad completely, not allowing him to see his son etc. She told him he wasn't cut out for being a dad and that DN has a better man now who would take better care of him than he could. (He fought this for 2 months then gave up - so he's a piece of shit himself for stopping trying in the first place - however he was only 22)

Anyway he keeps asking DSis now to see his son for the last 6 months or so, says he wants to take her to court etc. nephew is now 2y/o DSis says no and that her new bf will be adopting nephew eventually and dad needs to get lost basically.

The dad pays her phone bills, Sky TV bills, council tax and pays £500pm to her (he works a min wage job in retail) this was done via court he just pays what she's asked for. For what it's worth he was amazing with DN when he was in the picture, my sister had PND (undiagnosed) and didn't really bond with nephew and he really did step up. Sister also had a bad relationship with money so he ensured weekly food deliveries, clothes etc were made.

Now AIBU to be telling her she cannot keep accepting his money but deny him the right to see his child just because she wants the new man to be the dad? That if she is going to completely push him out of the picture, her new man can pay for their bills himself (she does also work)

I feel I need to support my sister but I look at my DH and think of the heartbreak it would cause him to be separated from our children and I hate it - she can't expect the bio dad to fund her son and not give him a chance to bond with him.

hard hat at the ready to be told IABU

OP posts:
HildaOg · 20/05/2017 21:20

Your sister sounds like a world class cunt and she is emotionally abusing her child through parental alienation and the pretence that this new man is the new daddy. I truly hope the dad can bring this to court and get full custody. She doesn't deserve a child and utterly horrific that she can do that.

rwalker · 21/05/2017 07:01

lottie yes it is basis the mother usually starts with full custody and farther has to apply for access if mother kicks off .of course there is sometimes a back story and farther does not deserve access . but this can apply to mother as well . and if all,s equal why should farther have to take you to court to get access he should have it automatically .
my 2 friends 1st one refused access unless he signed EVERYTHING over to her , and used to kids for leverage .the 2nd one access fine till he got new partner then she stopped access .the funny thing is as soon as she got new partner he has them every weekend and for tea twice a week after school now

Lottie991 · 21/05/2017 07:10

I suppose everyone has their own stories they have experienced or heard when it comes to custody rwalker, As I said I have heard/ seen of kids being forced to have access to abusive non resident parents which is another side, Which is why I don't believe every court in the land is swayed towards the mother.
Probably depends where u live what judge you get etc...

JourneyToThePlacentaOfTheEarth · 21/05/2017 07:14

She sounds horrible and he sounds daft. Why pay for someone else's living costs instead of paying for the court costs you need to see your son? He has parents, why don't they advise him better? Stop paying for her and pay for court ordered access instead. It's simple. And unless op is going to pass on this advice to the dad, what's the point of this thread?? Sister isn't listening when you told her it's wrong and immoral. Are you going to help the dad see your nephew op? Or would that be betraying your sister?

Wannabe2017 · 21/05/2017 07:17

If he didn't care he wouldn't be paying XYZ and giving 600pcm to his ex.

I think he's a 22 year old man who doesn't know where or who to turn to. Not everyone is clued up about their rights and how to proceed with court. He needs help not judgement!

I feel so sorry for him!

Wannabe2017 · 21/05/2017 07:19

OP, would you be willing to help the father at all?

Feckitall · 21/05/2017 07:21

As others have said even if he goes to court and gets access if the mother still refuses there is little he can do.
My DS is often given a shopping list of what his ex wants before he is allowed to see his kids.
When couples separate if she has residency the father is often left with option of a manky bedsit or worse if he is on minimum wage. Going through courts is not an option when it is not enforced either, just a waste of money.
Contrary to mn standards there are a lot of women that are manipulating and self serving using their kids as weapons.

twattymctwatterson · 21/05/2017 07:37

Sorry op, the story doesn't add up. You've got an agenda here haven't you?

Mummyoflittledragon · 21/05/2017 07:37

Why would you keep a child from a loving and good parent? At 22 he is very young and I can well understand that he doesn't have the maturity or tenacity to fight for his son. It may be very overwhelming and he is continuing doing what he's doing and hoping for a different result. He's not going to get a different result though, is he? I'd be giving him some advice to go to court. What a sad situation.

Willyoujustbequiet · 21/05/2017 08:05

your figures dont add up at all. There is no way someone on a minimum wage would have to pay that amount.

Also it easy to represent yourself in court and so costs are kept to a minimum. It's a lazy excuse trotted out by fathers who find it easier to blame their ex rather than admit their own failings.

prh47bridge · 21/05/2017 08:34

Sorry op, the story doesn't add up

In what way does it not add up? Sounds perfectly normal to me.

Couple have a child. They split up. He wants to do the right thing for his child so pays way over the top in maintenance (NOT court ordered - the OP corrected herself within minutes of her first post). He can afford to pay this much as he has moved back in with his mother. She meets a new man and attempts to cut the father out of her child's life. He continues to pay maintenance, probably thinking it is the right thing and possibly hoping it will persuade her to relent on contact. She continues to refuse contact. After 12 months of this he realises things aren't going to change so starts thinking about going to court but isn't able to afford it because of the excessive maintenance he is paying. Which bit of that is difficult to understand?

Sistersbabydaddydrama - As others have said, legally maintenance and contact are separate issues. However, if he is on minimum wage he is paying way over the top in maintenance and extras.

My advice to him is that he should reduce maintenance payments to the CMS level (12% of his income before tax and NI are deducted assuming he earns over £200 per week) and stop paying the extras (council tax, Sky, phone). That will save him at least £300 per month and probably significantly more. He should then use the money he has saved to get a child arrangements order giving him contact.

My advice to your sister:

  • if he goes to court he will get contact
  • the courts don't like parents who act unreasonably. Right now the courts would consider her as thoroughly unreasonable
  • she and her new partner will not be able to adopt your nephew
  • at some point the maintenance he is paying will go down to a fraction of what he is currently paying. If she continues to be unreasonable about contact that is likely to happen sooner
prh47bridge · 21/05/2017 08:39

There is no way someone on a minimum wage would have to pay that amount

He doesn't have to. He chooses to do so.

Also it easy to represent yourself in court and so costs are kept to a minimum. It's a lazy excuse trotted out by fathers who find it easier to blame their ex rather than admit their own failings.

Many people don't realise they can represent themselves. Even if they are aware of it, many are terrified of the idea and couldn't face it. That doesn't mean they are bad or lazy parents.

prh47bridge · 21/05/2017 08:44

As others have said even if he goes to court and gets access if the mother still refuses there is little he can do

That is not true. The courts should attach a warning notice to any child arrangements order setting out the consequences of failing to apply. If she refuses to comply he will have to go back to court for enforcement. The courts tend to give the parent with care (usually the mother) many chances before doing anything effective but they are becoming increasingly willing to take enforcement action up to and including reversing residence.

reallyanotherone · 21/05/2017 09:19

How many chances is an rp given though? Usually the nrp is emotionally and financially finished long before the point of enforcement.

Lottie i agree, it does go the other way and nrp are awarded contact when maybe they shouldn't. It comes down to whether the rp has the confidence to go against a court order, most decent people don't. Others are so self important or whatever personality trait they have and they know/think the courts won't enforce.

prh47bridge · 21/05/2017 09:29

How many chances is an rp given though?

It depends on the judge. Fewer than used to be the case but often still too many. I agree that many NRPs give up before the courts do anything effective, although there is some evidence that the increasing willingness of the courts to take action is encouraging at least some NRPs to keep going.

phoenixtherabbit · 21/05/2017 09:39

All this 'He doesn't need lots of money' is bollocks.

He might have to take her to mediation before a court will even consider his case. For us this was £125 Plus vat for an hour's session. We had about 7 (I think)

If that doesn't work (which thankfully it sort of did for us) then you have to go to court so you spend your £215 or whatever it is. You get your court order and everything runs smoothly.... for about a month and then the child's mother decides she's not going to stick to it.... back to court it is. More money.

It's such a myth that it's a simple processs.

worridmum · 21/05/2017 09:47

There should be a routine forced payment by the RP if the nrp has to keep going to court aka RP ignores court orders doesn't show up etc as it is not fair that the RP has all the power needs to pay nothing for court and just ignore the court order just to start the process all over again costing nrp shit tons of money

NeedsAsockamnesty · 21/05/2017 09:51

Someone who could prove they were paying that money for cm would get it deduced from their income for a court fees exemption

rwalker · 21/05/2017 11:06

thanks for reply lottie sadly judges don,t always get it right. but my friend who was denied access unless had singed everything over house savings and massive chunk of pension . the judge was spot on and. and questioned how come he,s not fit as a dad for access ,but then if gives you all the assets he suddenly is she saw straight through her did restore my faith, but saw the toll it took on my friend it was horrendous

BoneyBackJefferson · 21/05/2017 12:40

My friends ex refused contact, (he continues to this day to pay maintenance).

What his ex would do was

allow contact till she wanted something or he did something she thought was wrong.
he could either pay up or go to court
If he paid up she would demand more
if he went through legal channels he would end up
seeing solicitor who advised mediation
pay for mediation (5 - 7 sessions)
then pay to go to court (money for solicitors)
judge would side with him
he would see his kids for a couple of months
then rinse and repeat

For those that will post "how do you know this is true?"

I was his lodger/house share for for 5 years.

greenworm · 21/05/2017 12:53

I agree with pp, it looks like his best chance would be to reduce the money he pays your sister, and use the rest to pay for court / mediation.

I wonder if there is help available for those who self represent? I know they're controversial but maybe Fathers for Justice have a website with advice? I can imagine it's very daunting having to sort it all out yourself and work out what to do, especially for a 22 year old who might not necessarily be academic/well educated.

greenworm · 21/05/2017 12:58

These instructions from the gov.uk website look like a good place to start for him, they talk you simply through the process of applying for a court order, going to court etc:

www.gov.uk/looking-after-children-divorce/apply-for-court-order

SuperFlyHigh · 21/05/2017 13:05

Agreed with Worra, I used to work for a solicitors who dealt in family matters, you did get father contact issues from time to time but yes, they are costly, and yes, they are also lengthy sometimes and hard to resolve.

It's sometimes not simply a matter of, go to court, pay money, access granted. Especially if the other party are being unreasonable and difficult.

Haffiana · 21/05/2017 13:08

Nope, I call bullshit on this, including OP's updates. Doesn't make sense, doesn't add up.

SuperFlyHigh · 21/05/2017 13:08

Boney sounds similar to a few cases the family solicitor I worked with dealt with.

Contrary to popular belief, the solicitor dealing with this usually actually feels for the person wanting access and would prefer it if they were married (easier to get orders etc) rather than unmarried as can be easier all round.