AM I EXPECTING TOO MUCH FROM SECONDARY SCHOOL?

[cabbage67]

My eldest son is in year 8 at secondary school. The school seems to have an awful lot of supply teachers, who seem to just "babysit" rather than interact or teach. For instance his supply teacher for his French lesson didn't speak French. Is this the norm? He tells me that most supply teachers just tell the class to look through their books for the lesson.

Also his class was meant to have a science test today, but not enough pupils had revised so the teacher said he'd give them another week to revise. I don't agree with this and I would have made them take the test regardless. Is he soft or AIBU?

I'd love your comments as I don't have anything to compare it with or have much experience with secondary school

Thank you

I went to school during a labour government, it was the same then. Not everything can be solely pinned on the Torys

EwanWhosearmy

I agree that education wasn't/hasn't always been good.

the golden years of education put forward by many posters sparks one of my favourite rants.

The proportion of full-time teachers leaving is at a record high, and we also have a huge increase in the proportion of unqualified teachers teaching. A quarter of new teachers now leave within 3 years.

There have always been problems recruiting maths teachers but when I applied for my job 11 years ago, I was up against 4 other candidates who had been shortlisted for interview. Last year my department advertised for a maths teacher and got no applicants.

The situation is reaching crisis point and the Tories are sticking their heads in the sand.

Its probably worth mentioning that 1 in 3 teacher training colleges/unis will be shut down, and the drive for in school training (teach direct etc.) stepped up.

Perhaps noble but the school I worked at under the labour government had massive issues recruiting for shortage subjects then. I don't think it's an entirely new problem, but during the recession it became less of an issue as it was harder to find other jobs. That said the only way for schools to view with budget cuts is to pay teachers less in whatever way.

It's more of a problem now than it was before the global financial crash as well.

Increasinglymiddleaged

recruitment in some shortage subjects is so bad now that the government is offering £2,000 + per month tax free to train without having to set foot in a classroom at the end of training.

I'm in Maths teaching. There is a massive shortage of good teachers. The government try to address this by paying more to train but young graduates train, get the financial incentive, teach for a couple of years and then leave. There is a huge issue of retention of teachers.

We've also found that since Gove there's been a huge issue with staff moral. Experienced teachers (who are paid more) are being made to prove with mountains of paperwork and evidence, that they are capable of doing a job they have done for years. Something which their line manager could surely verify . It makes staff feel unhappy and unappreciated which makes them leave hence the need for supply.achools know it would be cheaper to replace them with inexperienced NQTs and schools need to save ridiculous amounts of money.

I am afraid it is very political and won't change with the Tories so we are looking at atleast 5 more years before anything improves schools.

I didn't say there wasn't an issue or that it isn't dire, just that it isn't entirely new and schools had unfilled vacancies in the noughties.

I have worked under Labour and Tory governments and it is definitely far worse now. We always had problems with recruitment in my subject but not so much retention or staff moral.

I used to work a lot as a supply teacher in primary.

In 3 out of the 4 schools I was a regular at (including the one my DD is now at), they don't use supply at all. They get the TA's (so unqualified) to work as teachers.

I can't imagine a nurse being allowed to work as a Doctor without going to Medical School or a dental assistant being allowed to put a filling in for you whilst the Dentist is on holiday - but hey. It's only education. Let's just put someone completely unqualified and incapable of teaching in charge.

All to save money. Really, as parents we should all be up in arms about this. Really doesn't surprise me at all that similar happens in secondary.

Increasinglymiddleaged

In the noughties there was a pool of professional supply teachers.
The supply resource is no longer big enough to plug the gaps as there are fewer teachers that do supply and more teachers leaving.

the situation is much much worse.

I think the difference is that in the noughties the main reason for shortages were that the wages in teaching hadn't kept up, therefore there were easier jobs for similar money. Whereas now the drivers are different and far more negative.

I think it needs to be remembered that shortage can be local and personal experiences are largely anecdotal.

It's normal in some schools but shouldn't be. A vote in any direction won't solve this. The best thing out there is bringing back selective schooling and linear academies. Check to see if there's any alternative in your area and change before September because he'll be in gcse this September and it'll be harder then.

The best thing out there is bringing back selective schooling

Oh dear god no this isn't. The experienced, qualified teachers will go to teach in the grammars and the remaining schools will scrabble around trying to find someone with a pulse to stand in front of their classes. The same for the Tory proposal for a specialist maths school in every major city. Where will they get the staff? From all the surrounding schools.

There are no state schools near us where this wouldn't happen. I know staff in the four secondary schools my children could end up at and they all have a similar experience. All are rated 'good'

Selective schooling would still mean that the same number of students will need to be taught by the same number of teachers so wouldn't solve the problem. The reality would be that Grammars would be fully staffed while Secondary Moderns (or whatever she chooses to call them) would struggle far far more with staffing and the students in those schools would be even more disadvantaged.

"The best thing out there is bringing back selective schooling"

Why?

Well if you had to pass exams to move up through schools and go to the better schools then there would be more focus.

Behaviour in schools needs some serious attention too and that would mean that if on a rarity the school couldn't find a subject teacher the class could just do independent learning in secondary schools which wouldn't require a lead.

Also All my family went through selective schooling and it served us all well as we were sent where our results determined us. My brother didn't bother taking the exams in middle school so had to work his way up.

Well if you had to pass exams to move up through schools and go to the better schools then there would be more focus.

It's not focus on schoolwork though, it's on passing the 11+. And the 11+ is supposed to be an exam that measures intelligence, not preparation.

Good grief. Where to start.

Proud grammar school alumna here.

Seriously, though, plaintomatopasta, you're not even wrong on this one. You've too profoundly misunderstood the issue to even BE wrong.

I presume you were educated in France?

plaintomatopasta

What a load of rubbish. There have always been behaviour issues at schools . That isn't what is causing the teacher recruitment crisis. Good behaviour and 'focus' don't make money for schools. There is a crisis in funding in schools and your ideas don't solve that crisis at all.

All my family went through selective schooling and it served us all well
I really doubt your family is a big enough sample to be considered representative.

Increasinglymiddleaged

I think it needs to be remembered that shortage can be local

Except that it is a national shortage and the numbers in training do not equal those leaving.

and personal experiences are largely anecdotal.

yes but in this case they are backed up by the figures.

But there needs to be more focus in schools. None of this "fidget spinners" or "phones out" business. No chatting and calling out. Kids are there to learn. They have 168hrs a week and only 30 of them are they asked to concentrate and work. It's preparation for the workplace more than anything else. Talking back and shouting out wouldn't fly when they get to work so why should it at school?

I think schools need to look at how they can raise achievement and results. It'll be hard for schools across the board but surely selectively setting children from middle school when they're 12 is meaning they are all on an equal footing.

"I think schools need to look at how they can raise achievement and results. It'll be hard for schools across the board but surely selectively setting children from middle school when they're 12 is meaning they are all on an equal footing."

Very few middle schools in the U.K.

Most secondary schools set.