AM I EXPECTING TOO MUCH FROM SECONDARY SCHOOL?

[cabbage67]

My eldest son is in year 8 at secondary school. The school seems to have an awful lot of supply teachers, who seem to just "babysit" rather than interact or teach. For instance his supply teacher for his French lesson didn't speak French. Is this the norm? He tells me that most supply teachers just tell the class to look through their books for the lesson.

Also his class was meant to have a science test today, but not enough pupils had revised so the teacher said he'd give them another week to revise. I don't agree with this and I would have made them take the test regardless. Is he soft or AIBU?

I'd love your comments as I don't have anything to compare it with or have much experience with secondary school

Thank you

LooseAtTheSeams totally agree about the test - the teacher is being as soft as shit. He needs to grow a pair.

Speaking up as an ex cover supervisor. .. I worked as a TA for ten years then did cover for 3 before moving into a permanent pastoral role. Last academic year I taught French all year. Fortunate as my (unfinished) degree is in French and English. I walked into a job as cover because of that subject knowledge but no teaching qualification and because that school could not recruit an mfl teacher. Was it ideal, no? Was it better than endless supply who couldn't speak French? Yes!! I learnt a lot about teaching languages from the years of supporting in lessons as a ta and with the support of colleagues was able to "teach " for a year. And still covered a few other lessons. My heart and soul went into that. I didn't teach ks4 but I did have a large uptake of my yr9s choose French as an option for this year. I was so proud.

I know this isn't always the case, but just to say it isn't always awful.

I still work in that school in a completely different role but the bonds with those kids are a wonderful thing and they do say really nice things about their time with me.

I was not a qualified teacher but I did know my stuff, never sat and read a book, planned all my lessons and have excellent behaviour management skills. I bloody loved it.
I'm dissatisfied with it all too but hope that the people who do it do their best.

The three permanent cover supervisors at our school are incredible. We'd be lost without them.

I am not attacking teacher or the SLT, maybe I phrased things badly - I am saying they are in a 'no-win' situation.

If you have a school with 1000 students (for example) but only enough qualified permanent Maths, English or Science teachers to teach 600 of them because teachers have left and you can't recruit more then how do you allocate those teachers?

If you focus them on KS4 then you will have a KS3 that are getting behind and while it will be their turn in KS4 you will always be playing catch-up or do you focus them on KS3 and get the foundations in place to the detriment of KS4. Most schools will try to balance if out between them but that means everyone loses out to some extent and parents of KS4 children want more.

Teachers are being expected to do too much with too little.

I've said this before - I'm an ex shortage subject science teacher. I left because the hours were insane and I had small children who don't sleep. I did do some supply however (despite the crap pay - nowhere near £130 per day despite being upper pay scale and previous head of subject) because there wasn't marking or planning making it a normal hours job.
Schools are so short of teachers that the last 3 schools I did supply in regularly offered me permanent positions on a practically "name your terms" basis. Not because I'm that good, but because they're that desperate.
Still a nope from me though. Education is broken.

I'm glad parents are waking up to the recruitment and retention of teachers. It's taken long enough. This situation has been building for years.

Except they blame the schools rather than govt cuts as per the OP.

I think the worst supply teacher I ever met was a woman in the 80s who turned up with her three-year-old and spent the lesson ignoring the class with her child on her knee playing fuzzy felts.

It's insane at the moment in education because of the horrendous budget cuts. The school I work in is facing a loss totalling £700,000 over the next three years! How does the school deal with this? Voluntary redundancies with the older teachers (get out whilst you can on a good package is more like), and employing rookies to take their place. Those newly hatched teachers will probably last about five years before leaving to probably retrain. Burnt out by the time they are in their late twenties.

All good secondaries focus on Yr 10 and Yr 11. However, in the current under funding crisis, it's imperative.

And I might add, this school is in a constituency that has always returned Conservative in the general elections.

Back in 1998, the Labour government hadn't yet reaped the benefits of investment in teacher training and improved terms and conditions and the situation of staff shortages was not dissimilar similar to today. That situation was improved in the early 2000s. I trained in a "shortage" subject around then but qualified as my subject saturated locally, (there was then an adjustment to reduce teaching numbers accordingly) which was how I came to start my career as a supply teacher rather than in a permanent role.

The current situation has sprung up much more suddenly thanks to Michael Gove's incessant meddling which two Education Secretaries on is just reaching fruition as the new KS2 SATS were introduced last year, and the turn over of old GCSEs to new GCSEs. Dealing with such massive changes to the curriculum, a heavy culture of accountability and back covering and virtually no resourcing has suddenly driven a lot of teachers out in the last couple of years as this has reached an intolerable level on top of the regular work load.

At one point last year, I found myself gluing into books (glue purchased myself) 30 copies of a sheet justifying an absence of work between late November to early January because I hadn't actually had the class on regular timetable in that time, so that I wouldn't be criticised for a lack of work in the next work scrutiny/ OFSTED/ MAT inspection/ learning walk.

Just to clear up a few myths on here.

Supply teachers are not that well paid. They cost the school a lot but a big chunk of that goes to the supply agency.

Many supply teachers are excellent, committed, highly qualified teachers who have chosen to step out of contracted teaching to focus on their own young families or other personal circumstances - OR, they have been made redundant. There were 15 teaching redundancies last year at my last school.

If a supply teacher turns out to be good and the school want to keep them on, the school must pay the agency a 'finder's fee' of usually a few thousand pounds at least. Schools don't have this money going spare.

DH and I have realised that we need to be much more involved in our kids' education than we thought. We are basically picking one subject to focus on at home and then moving on to the next when she's moved up a gear. Some of her teachers are brilliant and really push her, but she's had loads of supply teachers and one appalling teacher who just used to put on videos.

Parents have to engage with the homework - which is very random at dd's school - and try and do some consolidation work.

I trained to teach under Labour as at the time it seemed like a decent prospect. Excellent pension, a pay structure that rewarded experience, job security.

Now? It's a shitshow. Way more responsibility and far less remuneration. Experienced teachers managed out as too expensive. Constant upheaval. And the proposed Tory changes to the structure of the school system will have horrifying consequences. But they didn't listen to us about the consequences of rushed wholesale curriculum and qualification change and forced academisation and they sure as hell aren't listening to us now.

Exactly what Noblegiraffe said (I seem to say that a lot!)

If I knew how teaching would change I would never have left the finance industry for it, or I would have taken my excellent science degree (top uni, first ) into another career.

I teach in a school in special measures. It's a car crash. We have had no permanent head teacher since 2014 and have had a total of 5 temporary heads, plus one "substantive" head who stayed about 3 months before going off sick, so 6 heads since Easter 2014. There are only two fully staffed departments - the others have to manage with supply. Despite this, we've just had a "restructure" in which two colleagues were made redundant and two others (including me) are not being replaced when we leave. Education is a mess. A yr 8 student having a non-specialist supply teacher, sadly, is pretty much the norm.

Well this is it exactly Sleep. Excellent and very bright and intelligent teachers in the system, who being all the above know exactly what is happening. The current state of education is appalling and on a scale that if left to fester will become a disaster.

Teachers are not stupid.

EwanWhosearmy

You may want to pretend that its labour that has destroyed education, but the fact is that all governments of whatever colour are responsible for its demise.

Education of our children shouldn't be a political football.

Agree with the comments - and it will get even worse, obviously. I really despair at how little people know about the impact of government policy on teachers and students and I wish it was uppermost when they vote.
As for agencies, I registered with one because I'm an hourly paid teacher in further education and my college was messing around with my contract. I specified FE or sixth form as most of my experience is with 16-18 year olds. The next thing I know I'm being bombarded with requests to be a supply teacher in secondary schools across London or a cover supervisor. Even more troubling for students and parents, when they did have FE cover it was for special needs and I have no experience or qualifications in this area. The agency pay is even worse than my usual rate! Technically, I'm qualified to teach English to anyone aged 14 and above, not Year 7. So basically the schools are desperate and the agencies are pretty sure they can send anyone with the appropriate DBS clearance.

Education of our children shouldn't be a political football.

I agree but it is far to easy a way to score points.

Another thing with supply is that in April last year changes were made to expense claims, you used to be able to claim expenses each week/month you were paid, now you can only do it with a tax return and you do not get mileage.

A couple of years ago I spent 2 months doing supply 200 miles away form home, this is because they wanted a subject specialist. Obviously I couldn't travel daily but because I could claim accommodation I could stay in the area.

I can't do this now so only do supply within a few miles of home.

Agree with noble again!

I started my degree under labour whilst on low paid job (TA) and raising my disabled son as a LP.

I had plans to teach etc.

The past few years have seen such changes that I've not finished degree (can no longer get funding) have had to stop looking for better career (over a year to get EHCP for ds and him being out of school for some of it) and tbh although I'm absolutely passionate about the education and opportunities for children I've lost my passion for wanting to teach because the job is all about accountability and paperwork.

Teachers have my utmost respect - they are expected to produce ridiculous results and reach unmanageable targets to get a pay rise - for a postgrad job that's poorly paid already as it is.

Yeah the thing is I'm passionate about my subject and really want to teach and get the kids the best support and education I can. But not only was it killing me, I was neglecting my own kids - but worse I felt I was contributing to failing a whole generation of children, ruining their mental health at the cost of some political football. And that felt awful and i just felt I couldn't be part of that any more.

Silly typos but you get what I mean (had bugger all sleep last night due to DC)

BoneyBackJefferson

Not saying anything of the sort. Just my own experience.

Incidentally I was at secondary 1974 - 1979. In my second year we had 12 maths teachers. I get that it's bad now, but it wasn't particularly good before.

I do think ministers of all colours should stop interfering in schools and leave it to those who are experts, but I can't see that happening any time soon.

As a teacher in the UK (since buggered off to Forn Parts) here is how it worked.

Two GCSE 'populations' - let's call them A & B. Different timetables.

You'd have a year 11 A group & a year 10 B group or vice versa.

When, inevitably, someone quit mid year or was off with stress etc for months, Head of Dept would look at timetable.

'Crowy, you teach 11A & 10B. Jane won't be back. You're taking over her 11B & 10A groups. So you'll be losing your 4 free periods a week - sorry about that, but you'll be a happy bunny once year 11 go on study leave right? & your year 7s will be getting a supply teacher. If we can find one. Obviously you'll still plan their lessons, mark their books & have any naughty kids dumped in your year 11 class with a worksheet. Ok? Splendid. I'll buy you a bottle of gin at the weekend to say thanks. '

Every year. Don't think I ended a year with a single KS3 class for my last 5 years in the UK.