AM I EXPECTING TOO MUCH FROM SECONDARY SCHOOL?

[cabbage67]

My eldest son is in year 8 at secondary school. The school seems to have an awful lot of supply teachers, who seem to just "babysit" rather than interact or teach. For instance his supply teacher for his French lesson didn't speak French. Is this the norm? He tells me that most supply teachers just tell the class to look through their books for the lesson.

Also his class was meant to have a science test today, but not enough pupils had revised so the teacher said he'd give them another week to revise. I don't agree with this and I would have made them take the test regardless. Is he soft or AIBU?

I'd love your comments as I don't have anything to compare it with or have much experience with secondary school

Thank you

SaltyMyDear

True, but if your child was in Y11 and you knew there were permanent, good teachers teaching Y7-9, with a supply teacher in front of your child a few weeks before GCSEs, what would you be saying to the Head? "Oh, of course, it's quite right to focus on the foundations of learning for the younger year groups. Don't mind us."

I think this is pretty common in schools today OP. Short term it's not always a problem but long term supply or a succession of them is not good. Parents need to wake up to the fact that our schools are in crisis.

The test - I suspect the teacher is very new and inexperienced, because I used to fall for this one when I first started teaching. Even really nice kids will come in on test day and claim I hadn't told them about the test. I always just go ahead with it now, because I have always told them and even if I hadn't, I've always covered the content, so they should be OK.

Having a lot of supply teachers: -everything all the PPs have said is true - almost impossible to get good supply teachers etc, timetables often shuffled so Y11 always get a proper teacher, supply teachers don't teach and they really are paid £60 per day.

However, a school that has a lot of supply teachers, and isn't doing everything in their power to get a good long term supply in, is a big red flag to me - if I was going for a job there and found that out at interview, I would withdraw. Either behaviour is horrendous and/or management is awful and teachers can't cope.

As pp's have stated most schools have permanent cover supervisors who are not qualified but have to cover every subject in the school so will not be specialists. The absent teacher will plan the lesson, the cover supervisor is meant to deliver it but it is mostly working on something they have already learnt. It is glorified babysitting.
As for the science test, this week the year 11's have sat their biology and chemistry gcse exams. Next week is their physics. The teacher is probably stressed out to the eyeballs so I would let it go in this instances and give the guy a break.

Permanent cover supervisors aren't teachers but do understate training. Behaviour management courses are usury the bare minimum. Our cover supervisors are expected to work with each department and get to know the systems. Not all of it is glorified babysitting. It can and is done better than that in some schools.

Whoever is saying they prioritise yr10/11 at this time of year my child is coming up to GCSE's, top set science and they've all had half a term of supply teacher who just did knitting and colouring in whilst making them look through old work. I'm tamping but there aren't spare science teachers around anymore.

The absent teacher will plan the lesson this is another issue with being a teacher - it's often easier to drag yourself in no matter how ill you feel as its often easier than to sit and plan lessons that a non specialist can deliver.

Undertake^

I used to be a supply teacher before DCs. 7 years ago I could get £130 a day. I often did long term work and was happy with the planning, marking and other responsibilities that went with it. I was available full time unlike many supply teachers that were capped on earnings as they were semi retired and drawing a pension. If I was picking up long term work, there'd often be several weeks of sick notes before it had reached the stage of the school knowing that they needed a teacher for one or two weeks until the next sick note came in. When I did casual supply, it was frequently filling in random gaps through the school. Rarely my own specialism through the day. (Fortunately I was a good all-rounder and had a good standard of French and decent basics of Spanish and German).

These days supply teaching isn't viable against childcare costs. For two children at nursery/ breakfast/ after school club, it would cost me over £50 per day. That has to be booked in advance, I can't just herd them out at 8:39 when I get a phone call. I'll have invested over £50 in that. The phone doesn't ring every day so that is frequently wasted, and the rate of pay has gone down often to cover supervisor rate of £60-70 a day so it isn't financially viable. By the time I get the car out and drive across the county or to a neighbouring county I could be on a loss. So it's simply not an option. I used to pride myself on being a supply teacher that taught well, often in challenging circumstances- many teachers said that they couldn't do it because you don't have that essential tool of a relationship with the students to help you.

I'm also out of teaching for a while as quite simply my DCs deserve some of my time instead of maximum time in childcare then a brief window to deal with essential needs before returning to more planning, marking and remarking.

I despair at the current state of the education system.

I'm not sure there is much prioritising of Y11 and Y10 at the moment, there may have been historically but with the changes to the GCSEs there is less incentive.

If the schools feel the next couple of years are going to be practically a write off regardless they may choose to focus in KS3 so they can at least show they are pulling it back or at the very least not pull resources from KS3 into KS4 if a KS4 teacher is away.

OddBoots

Not at my school. We would always give Y11 the permanent teachers. There is no such thing as a 'write off'.

Schools will still prioritise 10 and 11. True, the current changes mean that that results are going to appear to fall (this is due to an increase in the marks needed to get each grade and the introduction of a grade 9, which is the equivalent to an A**.) Schools can't win, but our year 10 and 11 kids are stuck with those GCSEs for the rest of their lives. There is no way we would give up on kids we've taught for 5 years just because this government has decided to play Frankenstein with the Education system.

Trifleorbust - that is good to hear, I am very pleased. I am only going by what friends with children in Y11 at a couple of local schools have said they feel. Maybe the whole school has a significant proportion of supply teachers in their cases then.

There is no way we would give up on kids we've taught for 5 years just because this government has decided to play Frankenstein with the Education system.

Exactly. It is about the kids. Y11 English Literature delivered by a non-specialist supply teacher whilst an actual teacher is allocated to Y7 would be grounds for mutiny!

YANBU to say it isn't good enough - it isn't. Unfortunately, at the moment staff are hard to get and retain and the funding cuts mean a lot of schools will only pay cover supervisor rates.

I work in a really good school in a decent area teaching science and we have really struggled this year to find and retain enough teachers.

The workload is insane and more and more good teachers are leaving - 50% of our department are going this year!

I have been a cover supervisor unqualified - no degree but HND in engineering and a former (before kids) computer whizz.

Got into it because I was a dinner lady/mid-day supervisor (at my local secondary - 15 min walk away) - when my kids went to school - the head saw I was good at discipline and to be fair that counts for a lot in most schools. (I had had a behaviour management course for my Mid-day role as a pp said - it is usual)

Cover supervisors there were generally put in a reasonably well behaved class to "babysit" them til their teacher (or that of the ill-disciplined class who then had the teacher of the well behaved class) returned.

The endless supply of "worksheets" in that school amazed me.

There is a difference between cover supervisor and supply teacher. If it is supply teacher is subject specialist or qualified teacher in primary they are expected to plan and mark as that is included in the rate, not so for cover supervisor who just there. The problem is not always one of gist I belive but also one of being able to find a qualified specialist . I think it is the reason why we have such a need for supply that needs to be looked at.

The Tory manifesto says there will be more accountability at KS3 (return of Y9 SATs?!) because there isn't enough focus on those Year groups. This demonstrates how totally blind the Tories are to how dire the situation is in our schools. The supply of decent teachers is like a far too small blanket: pull it over your shoulders and your feet are left uncovered.
And with more and more teachers leaving and the government failure to meet recruitment targets, things will only get worse.

"If the schools feel the next couple of years are going to be practically a write off regardless they may choose to focus in KS3 so they can at least show they are pulling it back or at the very least not pull resources from KS3 into KS4 if a KS4 teacher is away."

Yes. Because everyone knows that teachers don't give a flying fuck about the kids they teach and are only in the job for the magnificent salaries, the holidays and the free skiiing trips...........

Our schools from reception up are in crisis, teachers are under paid over worked and funding is being cut. In our primary when any support staff leave they are not replaced. Any extra nice to haves are funded by parents and parents fundraising there is simply no money in the pot.
We have a chance to make a change next month, if you vote Tory you should accept what that brings with it.

My dcs school is doing this at the moment but have explained it to the dcs. There are a lot of revision and special help sessions for Y11 before half term so the school switches specialist teachers to the extra sessions. Y7 get the brunt of this but cover lessons have been set. Y10 dc has had most of his usual teachers.
The test thing is really annoying. There may have been a reason for leniency - for example, if too many of the class genuinely didn't understand - but I think this is a teacher being too soft.

The Tory manifesto says there will be more accountability at KS3

It should be the fecking tories made accountable for the dire mess they are making of state education and for failing our children.

I was a TA in 1998 and some of our classes had exactly this scenario. I can remember a Y9 class where the supply sat at the front reading her book and gave the class worksheets.

IIRC we had a Labour Govt in 1998.

Yes most is caused by change of education system.

I am an hlta. I've a specialist area of responsibility and deliver all training in school for this.

I'm looking to move from special ed to MS before taking on teacher training.

Except now the pay grade below mine has the same job description and some schools add more. So I could do the same job for 3 grand a year less - but covering classes of 30 pupils not 8!

Only just, Ewan! It had been Tories for 18 years before that...