To use the disabled loo when I'm with my son?

[RestingBitch]

My sons 9 months and obviously still in his pushchair. The majority of the time it's just me and him when I go into town/visit places. When I need the loo I get an attack of conscious, I normally use the disabled loo so I can bring him in with me.
Can't use a regular loo as I can't get him in the cubicle in his chair. Don't want to take him out of his pushchair and plonk him on the floor as the floors are manky and he will eat whatever is on the floor. He'll also probably try and crawl under the gap and interrupt someone else. Don't really like the idea of leaving him in his pushchair whilst I nip in the cubicle, so providing there isn't someone waiting for the disabled loos, AIBU to use them? I'm usually in and out and so far I've never encountered anyone waiting for one, or the impatient rattle of the door. If I am being unreasonable, short of pissing myself what's the options?

Not a troll, and don't work for any newspapers :).

Sirzy - I agree with you completely, however depending on the individual it is often not legally classed as a disability in the UK. You will not necessarily qualify for any benefits or be registered as disabled, depending on your circumstances.

Therefore according to some on this thread, you would not be qualified to use an accessible toilet. If you're not disabled, you can't use one.

As I said, it's a difficult area because need and ability are subjective and judgement of these will vary from person to person....

Yanbu

This is what I can find:
"The Disability Discrimination Act 1995 requires public facilities to be accessible to disabled people. Part 3 of the Act states that reasonable steps must be taken to remove, alter or provide a reasonable means of avoiding a physical feature which makes it impossible or reasonably difficult for disabled people to use a particular service (public toilets in this case)."
"The Royal Association for Disability and Rehabilitation (RADAR), in conjunction with disability organisations, local authorities and others established a National Key Scheme for toilets for disabled people in 1981. Under the scheme, if a local authority needs to lock public toilets for disabled people, it can use a standard lock and give a key to people with disabilities in its area. The scheme has proved a success, offering access to some 7000 toilets around the country."

No one said people had to be registered disabled (which is optional anyway) or on any form of benefits? If they did, I missed it.

'Perhaps instead of clawing at each others throats, it would be better to acknowledge that people's individual struggles can be varied, many, and complex, and to join forces and campaign for the provision of greater levels of accessible toilets for all'

It isn't 'clawing at each others throats' to point out that if every mother with a dc used the toilets that we all know are for disabled people then they will always be occupied for those that have no other choice but to use them.

I agree that clearly some people will continue to use them as they have a dc and don't want to wait, but just don't try and convince us or anyone else its ok. It isn't.

I don't think any parent would ask a total stranger to look after their child.

I used to and they're both still around, I'd only ask people who were already in the toilet queue or were washing their hands.

I'd happily offer to watch someone else's whilst their parent used the loo but I rarely have the opportunity, presumably because it seems to have become socially acceptable to block the accessible facilities without genuine need.

"requires public facilities to be accessible to disabled people"
And
"toilets for disabled people"

Are the only clues there. But it definitely doesn't say "toilets are accessible for anybody", which is what everyone seems to claim they have seen elsewhere
Hence me asking for a link, so I know where to focus my energy :)

What's this register of disabled people anyway?

People who "register" with adult services as requiring their assistance. It's not like a list of everyone who is disabled in the country.

Beyond - lots of people have said "if you're not disabled, you can't use an accessible loo."

How will we define disabled? Do we go by whether or not someone uses a wheelchair? Do they receive DLA? Do they have a blue badge? Are they registered disabled? Are some disabilities excluded because they don't need an accessibile toilet (i.e my first example of a deaf but otherwise perfectly fit person)? Is someone struggling with a temporary health problem, such as a broken leg, temporarily disabled and allowed to use the accessible toilet? What if they're in a wheelchair and not on crutches because the break was very bad? What if, what if, what if etc.

I refer back to my first point that need and ability are and always will be individual and subjective, and will always be judged differently by every single person. And that everybody has their own struggles.

I was just trying to inject a bit of peace and love and "can't we all just get along" into the thread!

You define disabled in this case as having some sort of physical need which means you can't access the "normal" toilets or need the extra (ha!) facilities of the disabled toilet.

I am not getting why that is so hard to comprehend for some?

I've just scan-read the equalities act, toilets being accessible isn't mentioned at all

don't think any parent would ask a total stranger to look after their child.
Yet there is another thread where a woman asked a stranger to watch her child whilst she reversed out of a space, so you maybe wrong there.

This, from the DDA, is interesting...

Duty of providers of services to make adjustments.

(1)Where a provider of services has a practice, policy or procedure which makes it impossible or unreasonably difficult for disabled persons to make use of a service which he provides, or is prepared to provide, to other members of the public, it is his duty to take such steps as it is reasonable, in all the circumstances of the case, for him to have to take in order to change that practice, policy or procedure so that it no longer has that effect.

So i take from that, that if customer policy says able bodied people can use the toilet and it is preventing disabled people using it, it is the duty of the business to address this, or they are being (legally) discriminatory?

(Section 21i)

And again Sirzy I agree with you, however as I have put in every one of my posts on this thread - need and ability are subjective and down to individual judgement. For example, someone on crutches may not feel they personally can safely use a regular toilet cubicle. Others may disagree.

But as this thread shows some people's judgement is flawed at best (breastfeeding? Too many children? Suitcases? Shopping?) so does need questioning to make people sit up and realise the impact their behaviour could have on other people.

Take it from someone who knows, adult adult care services don't have a "register of disabled adults or children.

www.hertfordshire.gov.uk/services/adult-social-services/disability/register-as-disabled/register-as-disabled.aspx

www.nhs.uk/chq/pages/2571.aspx?categoryid=155

www.hants.gov.uk/socialcareandhealth/adultsocialcare/registerasdisabled

These are the kinds of things I meant when I said "registered as disabled" - it is a real thing and I'm not making it up!

Please use the end cubicle and leave the door open with the pushchair facing you instead

Surely not, most public toilets have a mirror opposite or another cubicle so you'd be seen.

Adult services certainly have my details on file. And they gave me a pretty little yellow card showing that i am officially (tongue in cheek!!) disabled (not that anywhere accepts it as proof without a photo)

Wow I have commented upthread but I genuinely dont see ANY reason why an able bodied person can't leave pushchair directly outside the cubicle door for 30 seconds while they have a quick wee. I'm a childminder and sometimes have to do that. You can see the wheels of the pushchair and it's too short of a time for a baby to get taken out of the pushchair. Anyone who seriously thinks this is an unfeasible suggestion needs to have a good think about the need for these accessible toilets and hope they never need them for themselves legitimately. If your little one cries, it's only 30 seconds, it won't do them any harm.

Happy, I was amazed at that suggestion too. Nobody should have to have that indignity, whatever their circumstances. I can't really believe that anyone actually does it either. Embarrassing both for the person using the toilet and for anyone else also queued up or using the wash basins.

That is why there needs to be a rethink of the layout and design of public toilets in general.