To consider the Conservatives' manifesto pretty decent on the whole?

[Puzzledandpissedoff]

Pretty decent in terms in principles, that is ... as so often with manifestos it's too thin on costings

Main points here: www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-39960311

Full version here: www.conservatives.com/manifesto

My postal vote arrived yesterday and I've not yet filled it in. I thought my vote was decided but Corbyn's manifesto resonates with my life far more than May's. If it wasn't for Brexit...

Prophet what is it about Brexit that makes you hesitate to vote Labour?

I think the cut off for free school meals is around an income of 16K, if not receiving WTC. They COULD with the new universal credit, possibly change this to include working families too, anyone around this income and below. It does seem odd to penalise working families over the others.

On the other hand many children at present getting free infant meals, are well able to pay and that is what is being cut.

I suppose towhee the breakfasts they could do that as part of their free childcare programme, combine the two? Not sure. In any case it will be the staff and preparation, clearing up etc as well as the food provided. It is a good idea though, for the poorest children. If they can get there on time.

If it wasn't for Brexit...

It is the spanner in the works. Look if the LibDem in your area stands a better chance, go for it I say!

So it seems as families move into universal credit, they may be entitled whereas previously not on WTC. From the Gov website-

Your child might be able to get free school meals if you get any of the following:

Income Support
income-based Jobseeker’s Allowance
income-related Employment and Support Allowance
support under Part VI of the Immigration and Asylum Act 1999
the guaranteed element of Pension Credit
Child Tax Credit (provided you’re not also entitled to Working Tax Credit and have an annual gross income of no more than £16,190)
Working Tax Credit run-on - paid for 4 weeks after you stop qualifying for Working Tax Credit
Universal Credit
Children who get paid these benefits directly, instead of through a parent or guardian, can also get free school meals.

Who's on brekkers duty overstretched and underpaid teachers ??

Pleased to see you're back Rainbows, but I haven't seen an answer to my question on page four. Did I miss it? Do you think that this is the way disabled people should live? Do you think my access to the NHS wasn't paid for in part by some of the taxes paid all the years I worked in education?

They won't do that lovely as that would increase pupil premium payments.

Rainbows my dd is on zero contract minimum wage. She was born in our town but cannot get a council house. Instead she pays for private rental. More money than if she had a mortgage. Currently because she is on WTC she gets precisely £80 paid on her rent if £550 for a 2 up 2 down damp ridden house which the landlord refuses to do repairs on. All if her wages goes towards her rent and her council tax bill if £100 a month. She literally lives on WTC to pay her gas electric utility bills food clothes for her and her 15 yr old teenager oh and TV licence. Her WTC is just over £120. If she works another 10 hours a week she will lose not only the £80 towards her rent but a % of her working tax credit. She will earn 10x £7.70 more but will life much much more. As it is she cannot afford to work more than 30 hours. So stop bloody moaning about people on WTC unless you would like to pay them a proper living wage, ( she us a community carer,) social housing where she could afford to pay all her housing costs herself thus saving taxpayers money, and decent schools in town with proper funding do that I don't have to pay £100 a month to ship my gdd who is in the top 10% of the country academically 30 miles away to attend a decent school!

ExplodedCloud

I feel Labour have ignored Brexit - and it's cost. It's the elephant in the room with their manifesto.

Thornberry and Abbott's lack of basic maths/inability to take on a brief really worried me as a potential future cabinet - and the infighting/rapid 'corrections' on various matters make me think they're not best placed or disciplined enough to take on the collective might of the EU at the negotiating table.

Not that my single vote counts for much but this election for me is a matter of what's best for the country to get the Brexit deal vs what's benefits me/my dcs.

I'm not usually a Labour voter so it says something that their policies have resonated. I could see myself voting Tory this time and for the Labour Party next election...depending on the state of the Labour Party.

I need to do a bit more reading as I don't like feeling conflicted about my vote.

Then again Hammond got his maths wrong and the media let him off

www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/tory-philip-hammond-skewered-bbc-10438641

Well it does say universal credit included for FSM, on their list. I wonder if they will make it to be the same as for WTC.

It is hard to cover school meals at times for working parents, we are on WTC and low income and it's around £5 a day so £100 a month, would be cheaper to do packed lunches really but I'd prefer them to have a hot meal especially in winter. We're on a combined income of around £10K due to ESA/PIP and still have to cover these...

In many cases people would just give a packed lunch and hot meals might be better for the obesity issue, but would need to be incentivised in some way due to costs for the 'working poor'. IMO.

Fab could they not separate FSM from pupil premium and use that for the very poorest perhaps?

Prophet I understand those concerns. Diane Abbott has always been a bit of a loose cannon but we've seen the same shambolic maths from a number of Conservative MPs in the last week.
My feelings about the negotiations are that:

1. Most actual negotiating will be done by the same people no matter who's in power.
2. The red lines of who or what the party in power is prepared to throw under a bus to get an agreement, matter. The Conservatives will preserve business interests at all costs.
3. The Conservatives have already pissed off the EU mightily with the referendum and their stance thus far. I'm not sure being bloody difficult is going to set a good time for the briefing of negotiators.
4. We've had virtually a whole year of posturing. The clock is ticking. A50 has been triggered so why are we carting about with an election lasting nearly 8 weeks?

Brexit is a laugh a minute. It makes no odds if everyone in thus country voted for May. It would not make any difference in the brexit negotiations. When all countries are sat round the table their individual mandates makes no difference as all have an equal voice no matter the size of mandate or size if country etc. That was written in their constitution a long time ago. David Davis today has said if Europe keep banging on about the 100 billion they want as a divorce settlement he will get up and walk away. And Europe will let them. May will come back with no deal, Parliament will demand another ref. And in the end no brexit lol! Don't focus on brexit. the election was never about that. It's about the Great Repeal Bill coming up and Mays swing at complete power. Focus on things closer to home that will affect you and your family more, things that matter like NHS, social care, education, etc. These will affect you more directly and more harder than brexit

Amendment on last but one post ifine my dd works 20 hours a week not 30.

ExplodedCloud - I do think who is the public face/has placed their reputation on the negotiations matters - whichever behind the scenes Whitehall & Brussels mandarins do the dirty work - and they will set the tone. May is known to them. Conversely, having voted to leave I don't think it matters a jot to the EU who's running our country - the snub has already been delivered - and they need to secure the most protectionist/ advantageous deal from us. If it didn't matter so much in people's minds, May wouldn't have called an election.

And I agree the Tories are looking unusually inept when being drilled on their own manifesto beyond the matter of Brexit. It's like it was hastily conceived

But thank you Exploded for laying out your thinking & I'm going to read the rest of the thread now

:)

Sostenueto If you are talking about all countries in the EU having an equal mandate, then you missed the move to QMV from 1st April this year, including Article 50, hence the need to get it in before then. QMV means that countries will now vote in blocs as opposed to it being unanimity required. No more veto on lots of issues.

I meant mandate in your home country. But I see your point scaryteacher. I think EU don't want GB to leave and will make it extremely hard to do so. Mays stance is making things worse all round. Meanwhile all focus on Brexit while she sneaks in her new policies which will create more and more divide and more poor people in this country.

So tired of hearing the 'good deal' 'bad deal' 'no deal' rhetoric re Brexit.. There's nothing meaty in any manifesto, not even an acknowledgement in the Tory one that some of the campaigning slogans were lies. Davis and Fox bleating about 'walking away' is pathetic posturing. The focus in the EU draft guidelines is on 'orderly withdrawal' in which ensuring the rights of citizens is a much bigger priority than discussing any future trade deals.Totally agree. The UK just simply doesn't get that. 'Transitional arrangements' might be considered before the UK formally becomes a third country, but all 27 countries will be absolutely firm that there will be a financial settlement and that the 'deal' for the UK needs to be worse than it is now. There's absolutely no evidence to suggest that Theresa May is a safer pair of hands. The ridiculous posturing about walking away without a deal etc is so amateurish. And because the Tories in Europe have been aligned with some of the more extreme parties, Labour might have more sympathy there. We need all the friends we can get.

If you give your children all the food/sweets on pay day so you have nothing for them by next Thursday

1)The Tories give all the sweets and more, to the most obese kids and and put the underweight ones on a crash diet.

2. You are aware that after years of austerity( for the poor and middle ) the budget deficit has Inceased amd the super-rich have got richer?
3. money cannot be compared to food.Food is eaten and the result is shit.Money is spent and becomes income for somebody else.The poor are more likely to spend extra income thus benefitting the economy.The rich are more likely to save or spend abroad which doesn't.

It's about the Great Repeal Bill coming up and Mays swing at complete power.

Sost, absolutely chilling.