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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To consider the Conservatives' manifesto pretty decent on the whole?

909 replies

Puzzledandpissedoff · 18/05/2017 15:45

Pretty decent in terms in principles, that is ... as so often with manifestos it's too thin on costings

Main points here: www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-39960311

Full version here: www.conservatives.com/manifesto

OP posts:
Sostenueto · 21/05/2017 00:05

I agree sionella. But you can say the same for inheritance, NHS, social care, education etc etc. I try not to be a burden on the state. I could get all my care I really need free but I choose not to do that but instead manage on the bit of help I already get on ESA. We are the 5th wealthiest could try in the world and we are supposed to be a caring society. What is wrong in spreading the wealth a bit around the whole population? Is that too much to expect? Too much to look after those less fortunate?

Sostenueto · 21/05/2017 00:08

Yes Rubiq but don't blame all Tory voters for that. Blame globalisation and Tory policies for that.

Charmageddon · 21/05/2017 00:24

The pupil premium kids will have to pay for a dinner because I really don't think they will survive a whole day on a bowl of cereal and/or a slice if toast.

Free school meals are not being taken away.

It is universal free school meals for infants that are being stopped (after only a couple of years, so a recent thing).

Free school meals for low income families will still exist - so those children will still get their lunch for free as well as breakfast.

Sostenueto · 21/05/2017 00:30

Lovely Helena, fortunate for me my very small family don't think like that. Perhaps it is a really old fashioned idea. I do not blame anyone for wanting their own lives, my dds have theirs. They don't live with me and I would not live with them. We, as a family, and it was their idea not mine, work together to make sure each leads their own life, none is burdened with anyone, each helps the other and above all we value each other. But then they dont expect quite so much out if life in the material sense having never had it. So they don't value material things or the accruing of them that much. They value their families. Im not pious, just very old fashioned. Wish it would come back in vogue though. Peace to all, love to hear other peeps thoughts and ideas. Take care to allx

Sostenueto · 21/05/2017 00:33

X posted Charmaggeden that is good to hear! Was told it was all school dinners. Pffft!

Charmageddon · 21/05/2017 00:39
Smile Relax Sostenueto!

If they do bring this breakfast thing in, it effectively means that the FSM children will have 2 meals per day, which is great obviously.

One thing that previous posters have pointed out though is that it would probably have been better to increase the means testing amount to help more people, rather than bringing in breakfasts for all.

ExplodedCloud · 21/05/2017 00:42

Children on qualifying very low incomes will get school lunches. The JAM or not really managing but working family children won't. The Conservatives aren't supporting the families who are trying.

makeourfuture · 21/05/2017 04:46

Well it is a confused idea isn't it? And does nothing really to address the exploding levels of Tory Debt. Nor does it help the education system.

Rushed. Confused. Nonsensical.

NoLotteryWinYet · 21/05/2017 07:22

I can see as with all policies, people who don't quite qualify for fsm will be disadvantaged - but this could be a very good policy for the poorest kids - if they get porridge and then a decent lunch and go back home to round up a piece of toast it could significantly impact outcomes for those children.

NoLotteryWinYet · 21/05/2017 07:27

Also anyone see vince cable on question time on tuition fees? He was brilliant on how successive governments had made fools of themselves trying to promise free education when no govt could afford it now, and drawing parallels from Scotland where Scottish universities prefer other types of students and the cap hasn't increased.

mummytime · 21/05/2017 07:28

NoLottery - the big need for the poorest children, which has been identified by various charities is for the "school lunch" to continue through the holidays. This would be far more useful than breakfast but far harder to fund.

LovelyBath77 · 21/05/2017 07:34

Children on FSM will now get breakfast as well, surely that's a good thing? Confused

Sostenueto · 21/05/2017 07:40

What will happen though when May takes away working tax credit next year? Is that still on the Tory agenda?

Sionella · 21/05/2017 07:46

Exploded - that's not what I was saying. I was replying to sustenueto's impassioned plea of "their school meals are being stolen". Fundamentally, nobody is entitled to free food paid for by someone else. It's not theirs to be taken away in the first place. This isn't like saying, "the Tories are taking away their right to live free from torture".

That doesn't mean I agree with it, but it is wrong IMO to look at it as if a human right is being scrapped.

And the fact that my well-off nieces and nephews got them needlessly just shows that it is much better to rejig the system.

ForthemanyNotthefew · 21/05/2017 07:47

How are schools going to staff free breakfast time? It's a daft idea

Sostenueto · 21/05/2017 07:55

You have a valid point sionella and it was my mistake thinking all dinners were being scrapped. Maybe the fact everyone gets it free breakfast now anyway instead of dinner is so as to help those who do not qualify for free meals but are struggling on minimum wage and recieive working tax credit (while it still exists). Apologies Sionella x

Sionella · 21/05/2017 07:59

Ah no need to apologise to me at all Smile I just think it's great that so many people are so passionate about these important issues. You can disagree on politics all you like, but please care - apathy and not voting is the worst thing!

MaisyPops · 21/05/2017 08:06

She's just come out saying that the energy bill cap she made a massive announcement on is a lie. Well, I say come out. What's actually happened is the manifesto mentions a review of prices.

Whilst I'm centre left, I never felt the level of sheer dislike and disdain for an old centre right Tory MP that I feel towards Theresa May.

I can almost see how people might vote for a centre right Tory party. I can't see how anyone could possibly think she's anything other than nasty and spiteful.

She's posted on Facebook about how is 'she looses 6 seats then disaster will happen'. This entire election is about her building her own empire with business and has nothing to do with the Conservative back bench MPs or the interests of the British public.

I think she's a lying manipulative woman who has excessive influence in the media & is out to ensure working people are screwed over and wants to change electoral boundaries, repeal fixed term parliament act and make all mayoral elections First Past The Post to ensure that she has a grip on power for as long as possible and to wipe all opposition.

MaisyPops · 21/05/2017 08:09

One thing that previous posters have pointed out though is that it would probably have been better to increase the means testing amount to help more people, rather than bringing in breakfasts for all.

I would agree. But that would mean more children being eligible for pupils premium funding and the idea of properly funding schools isn't on Theresa Mays agenda. She doesn't give a shit about education other than carving it out grammar schools, setting up and then closing failed free schools and underfunding the rest.

Peregrina · 21/05/2017 08:11

This is your every day working class person that this will effect.

Someone like MIL, who after years of scrimping and saving managed to buy her own house. It's now worth perhaps £250, 000, which is money she would like to pass on to her grandchildren, of which she has a lot. Approx £25K apiece will be a nice bonus for all of them, but it won't make them wealthy.

Meanwhile the Camerons and Osbornes of the world, with their expensive accountants, will know all the wheezes available (sorry, know about efficient financial planning), to make sure that their grandchildren get substantially more that £25K.

Sostenueto · 21/05/2017 08:15

I didn't get my facts right and I would put flowers here for you Sionella but my damn imogees don't work x. I agree voters can be fickle but the trouble is the world we live in is consumed by globalisation. All around its a me me place. If I was fitter and younger I would be out there demonstrating about it. But I would only be accused of being a commie or some such person. It seems values and empathy have long gone from our world. I used to have material things but through divorce, misfortune, whatever, I lost everything I ever worked for bar my little dds who are my world and my dgc. When you had it all and then lost it all you realise what is really important in life. Your family and your health and people around you who care about others. I urge people to vote with their conscious vote for a better country for all. Vote for a country where real values matter. Vote for a country that wants to look after planet earth. Vote for a country that loves all no matter what colour,creed or religion. Vote for peace. And here ends the lecture by me lol!

Peregrina · 21/05/2017 08:19

Whilst I'm centre left, I never felt the level of sheer dislike and disdain for an old centre right Tory MP that I feel towards Theresa May.

I can almost see how people might vote for a centre right Tory party. I can't see how anyone could possibly think she's anything other than nasty and spiteful.

My sentiments exactly. The more old fashioned Tories at least seemed to know they had been dealt a more fortunate hand in life, and many of them were active community-minded citizens. Not now it seems.

Crumbs1 · 21/05/2017 08:32

The whole breakfast thing hasn't been thought through. The poor children from chaotic families who really need food won't ever be dropped off in time. Many only just make it after the bell a 8.50am.
The breakfast clubs will be free childcare for the middle classes - not a bad thing in its own right but not serving those most in need.
Who is going to staff these breakfast clubs? Schools already struggle to staff and fund current provision. Schools are going to have to completely rearrange things with no money to do so.
Hot lunches will go completely. If they're not free most parents won't pay and will send a packed lunch. The contractor will not continue to provide a service for half a dozen children. Children from poor families miss out again.

Paying for care costs down to last 100k sounds OK but is a tax on dementia. Why are they not increasing inheritance tax instead? Get the huge sums off those who really can afford to pay instead of removing the family home from the next generation? Means far more will never get on the property ladder and the people who benefit will be very wealthy private landlords. Fund social care from proper collection of corporation tax and inheritance tax at 50/75% of monies over a million.

Immigration reduction- the reason many gave for Brexit and pumped by the Tories has a) risen under Tories and b) not been set as a policy to reduce to "tens of thousands" just a sort of ideological target. Immigrant labour is essential and they know it but are being disingenuous.

It's all about one person and not the party or manifesto. Were told we need a strong and courageous person to lead negotiations on Brexit. Fails to mention the other 27 who will actually decide the future of the UK as it leaves the EU. Fails to mention Europe not the U.K. will be in the driving seat and we need not a person with blinkered vision and feet stuck firmly in the 1950s negotiating but a person willing to listen and compromise.

MaisyPops · 21/05/2017 08:33

Peregrina

Exactly. I found older more moderate Tories to have totally different views to me, and I disagreed with them, but I felt they genuinely believed what they were doing would help. And who knows, maybe they're from a background where low tax, personal wealth and lots of philanthropy was a thing. Where I used to live was a traditional Tory strong hold and the amount of time people would spend running services in the community was impressive (small town rural constituency).

Now, I just see Tories stashing their money in legal loopholes, wanting to carve up public services for their mates, pander to anti-immigration sentiment, cut affordanble housing (help to buy just means taking on debt sk house builders can still rake it in), blame the poor for the problems of the world whilst covering for their mates in banking who've caused all this shit.