Non Binary / Gender Neutral

[MissBax]

Okay so I know this may spark some serious debate. I just want to say that I really don't want to offend ANYONE, however AIBU to say that the whole non Binary trend (for want of a better word) is getting abit out of hand??
If someone was born a man and chooses to transition to a woman or vice versa I understand that, but to say you don't identify as having a gender... I just don't understand it?! I am female but have never been girly - I didn't have dolls, I despise pink, and I always played football with the guys, climbed trees and was very sporty. But I'm still a girl. I know boys who didn't necessarily like "boyish" things but they're still boys. Any girl or boy can like anything they like.
Now we have "non binary" people who SAY they don't identify as one gender or the other, yet some of them are born female, wear make up and dresses. So following typically "girly" or "feminine" characteristics. Or those who have a sex change and THEN say they're non binary?! So then why have the sex change?!
AIBU to think this is just another way to ruffle people's feathers and possibly attention seeking?
(I wait in anticipation for being called ignorant and a biggot etc...)

I was always under the impression the breastfeeding conferred antibodies from the mother to the baby? Presumably we are designed to feed our babies with milk we make?

But I don't know about the new research.

There was a ton of marking done 10 to 20 years ago backing up the whole breast is best thing.

But yes, loops, if you are aware of research to suggest otherwise, post about it. It's a hugely popular topic because so many mumsnet members are at that lifestage.

Loops you're being an arse now, coming on to a parenting website to tell us your considered opinion on breastfeeding. Did you always consider yourself to be such an expert on everything?

Breastfeeding prevents a tiny proportion of colds/stomach upsets compared to FF but only when looking at the entire population. BF has a much higher failure rate than women are told, and babies are starving to death because of incorrect information from poorly trained health professionals.

So breastfeeding helps with the baby's immunity but only when looking at the entire population? How else would you look at it?

A failure rate in terms of being able to breastfeed does not correlate at all with how beneficial breastfeeding is.

And where are these babies starving to death because of incompetent HCPs? In the UK?

If you were struggling to breastfeed and your baby was suffering, you could switch to formula, which by your statement would be freely available. I don't get it.

There's nothing to get. loops has completely overreached herself with that little snippet.

Loops The mothers on this thread have probably hundreds of years experience between them of feeding babies one way or the other. And usually plenty of experience of having to research and defend their choices, whatever they were. You need rock solid research at your fingertips if you want to enter that debate!

I suspect inherently female things like breastfeeding and childbirth are inconvenient to the message of the gender fluid and best minimised.

*loops "But studies do not support the claims that it is important"

ha ha........... it is not as important in the developed world as it is in the majority world but it is still important. Have the baby milk companies put a human gene in a cow yet and marketed it!

www.unicef.org/nutrition/index_24824.html

There should be no guilt for women who cannot do it or choose not to do it, none at all, but it is proven to have benefits.

sorry 'developed'/minority/west

", the conventional wisdom is that breastfeeding is a maternal duty that forces women to eschew their career aspirations to fulfill some ideal of motherhood, while feminism is about liberating women from exactly those constraints. Case closed."

Doesn't take much digging to reveal the true bones of the argument.

Formula companies have funded some recent "research" to minimise benefits of breastfeeding. After all that's really what women want- and it gives them "choice" right?
Breastfeeding takes us back to the dark ages surely?

Give women formula, they are happy, it doesn't matter to babies and formula men make a lot of money..

Formula companies have made breastfeeding difficult.

Robbed women of the ability to carry out a basic biological function with ease.

I could wade back in with a ton of links to research if people wish.

I think most research now is focussing in the gut bacteria which is partially from a natural birth but there after governed by bf. Various unidentified, identified and non-recreated things support the ongoing development of the gut biome which in turn has been proved to impact immune system stuff, growth and other health factors. There are exceptions to the rule as always. Pet ownership during and after birth also impacts on this biome, but along side bf, i.e. there's a negative difference with pet ownership but no bf compared to pet ownership and bf.

There's other things relating to palate development, tooth spacing and tongue flexibility which are improved through bf, esp extended bf, even if poor to start with.

It's not black and white as babies never just pop neatly into boxes.

Can you explain more about the pet ownership? I know this thread has gone way off the original point, but I'm interested to know about it.

I'll try to dig out the research. I thought it very interesting too!

Ekphrasis "I think most research now is focussing in the gut bacteria which is partially from a natural birth ..." Can you link to this, please or send me a pm, just interested.

I've read this with interest having myself found t hard to understand the non binary issue.

I'm another who can get males to female and female to male transition but to be 'nothing' is just incomprehensible to me.

I always thought males were male because biologically they had male sex organs and the same with female.

To me gender non binary just means you don't don't adhere to stereotypes - I just don't get how you can't be anything

DS has had a flatmate since September whose sex and gender identity are unknown to everyone else in the flat.

I don't know if they are nonbinary or not, but nobody knows which sex they are.

I wonder why it would be so important to someone to hide what sex they are?

https://microbiomejournal.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s40168-017-0254-x

This is the pet one. It focusses more on the pet part, bf being a part of the jigsaw (further on into the paper). Basically, owning a pet with ff and section is better for gut biome than not owning a pet, ff and section. The best outcome is with pet owning, bf and natural birth. (I hope I've digested it properly, it's a lengthy read!)

I wonder why it would be so important to someone to hide what sex they are?

I do agree but it has made me think: why is it so important for someone to know what sex another person is? If there is no pressing reason to know, why does it matter?

No, there's no actual need to know at all, really...
I suppose by keeping it under wraps it appears to be deliberately making it of greater significance than it is? I'm loathe to say attention seeking but that's what I'd think if I met someone like this

(Very off topic!)

It's linked to vaginal seeding - not fully proved to have enough benefit in this country to balance the slight risk of infection. However, I don't have the link sadly but I was quoted to by someone else that the impact of section is decreased or 'solved' within 2 weeks of bf.

A link I've found: "Breastfeeding and antibiotic use are also known to alter the microbiota, and mothers who hope to give their baby a healthy microbiota might be better to focus on breastfeeding and avoiding unnecessary antibiotic exposure." From www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/vaginal-seeding-what-is-the-technique-used-after-c-sections-and-is-it-safe-a6892816.html

These are links I've been shown by others; I don't research this.

www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1931312815001626

breastfeedingtoday-llli.org/bacteria-a-secret-of-breastfeeding/

... focus on bf and avoiding abs in pregnancy" that should read.

Wonder of all these NB folk will raise their children NB. Would be a bit hypocritical to presume their babies gender identity and enforce the wrong GI on them.

At what point would it be appropriate to ask what sex someone is though? In most cases it's pretty obvious (I am either a woman or a man with large breasts and a female name for example) but someone called Alex with a neutral clothing and androgynous looks...? Why would you ask other than nosiness?

Why would you ask other than nosiness

Health care?
If they are taking part in sports?
If you wanted a sexual relationship - do you need to know what sex someone is?