Non Binary / Gender Neutral

[MissBax]

Okay so I know this may spark some serious debate. I just want to say that I really don't want to offend ANYONE, however AIBU to say that the whole non Binary trend (for want of a better word) is getting abit out of hand??
If someone was born a man and chooses to transition to a woman or vice versa I understand that, but to say you don't identify as having a gender... I just don't understand it?! I am female but have never been girly - I didn't have dolls, I despise pink, and I always played football with the guys, climbed trees and was very sporty. But I'm still a girl. I know boys who didn't necessarily like "boyish" things but they're still boys. Any girl or boy can like anything they like.
Now we have "non binary" people who SAY they don't identify as one gender or the other, yet some of them are born female, wear make up and dresses. So following typically "girly" or "feminine" characteristics. Or those who have a sex change and THEN say they're non binary?! So then why have the sex change?!
AIBU to think this is just another way to ruffle people's feathers and possibly attention seeking?
(I wait in anticipation for being called ignorant and a biggot etc...)

Ok, answering as best I can, can't keep up with this thread moving so fast

walking thank you, so, I'm not sure actually, considering it probably not, that's interesting! I also am not sure whether we feel oppressed, probably not in the current situation we find ourselves in but that may change as we grow older and are in different social situations/jobs/doing different things. There is a lot of looking at 'groups' in the sense that we try to understand the needs of say disabled students, or POC students, but there's also a much greater 'want' to be intersectional and to understand and acknowledge that not all people within a group will face the same challenges or think the same.

mostly that is really interesting, thank you for that response and I'll definitely be thinking about it going forward.

Datun yeh it probably is to do with my experience, although I am inclined to view my experience as more 'standard' as opposed to viewing the deviance in trans women/men to be the norm. I do understand your second point, and that is...an issue, although one I am not sure how to solve with the knowledge that I have.

I suppose there might be a gene that predisposes people to being trans. A bit like the god gene theory - which says that there is a gene that predisposes people to belief in god and/or spiritual experience.

The difference is, we are not all required to play along with other people's beliefs in god or souls or whatever in the way we are required to play along with belief in 'gender identity' or that transwomen are women.

Loops that's what I expected. I felt the same until my mid-30s (i.e. that women aren't oppressed). Given that, I can see how transgender doesn't feel like very much of a problem.

Once you see the oppression of women, it's everywhere! I sometimes wish I didn't see it. Gloria Steinem I think said "The truth will set you free, but first it will piss you off"

www.reddit.com/r/asktransgender/comments/6ar1a6/ive_just_been_told_i_cant_use_the_womens_locker/

www.reddit.com/r/asktransgender/comments/6c2zb3/update_im_taking_legal_action_against_parklands/

Things like this are one of the reasons why many females have issues with the political side of the trans debate.

cricket I just think that it's important that asexuality is discussed in sex-ed, so that children know that it's 'normal' and not that they are defective. An acknowledgement that corrective rape happens to asexuals because they are asexual. In many places there exists a complete lack of understanding of what asexuality is, or even that it exists and is not the same as abstinence. Just because people aren't being hanged for their asexuality, doesn't mean they're accepted as a normal part of society. Many people are 'fine' with asexuals in same-gender partnerships, because then they can pass as gay. But bisexuals are still valid even if they are dating someone of a different gender to their own, it would just be nice if asexuals were afforded the same respect. An asexual woman in a relationship with a man is not straight, neither is a bisexual woman in a relationship with a man.

Loop, can I say thank you right back at you? You are one of the very very few trans-supporting (in the sense of transwomen are women, moving in social circles where TERF is used in the same breath as racist) posters I've come across who's stuck around to engage in conversation and actually listen and address the points. It's a real breath of fresh air.

An asexual woman in a relationship with a man is at least perceived as straight. Just like a bisexual woman.

Yes, I'm still bi. But I can clearly compare how society treats me and my relationship with a man to when I had a girlfriend. The difference is drastic.

Rape happens (mosly to females!) for many reasons and they all deserve to be talked about.

Agree! It's so valuable, as I think a huge number of people have the same viewpoint

cricket what exactly was the problem with that woman using the locker room? All she wanted to do was use a locker. Legal action seems a bit ridiculous, but it's the idea of micro-aggressions, one will often be the tipping point and you can't cope anymore. She said she preferred to use the gender neutral ones, and didn't use the shower?

(that was meant to follow M0stly's post!)

But yes, loop.

This is extremely interesting.

The thing is. I'm not against trans people.

I just want to protect the rights of biological women and don't agree with "NB genders".

I personally think the term "microagressions" is ridiculous when people still suffer real agressions simply because of the sex they were assigned at birth.

Like, flouncing doesn't really achieve anything, and when it ends up in a slanging match it's not very useful for people reading the thread later as tons of posts get deleted. I'm very painfully aware that my life is fairly 'sheltered' due to being in an environment where we largely share the same views, it's helpful to at least try to understand the other side. Although it always gets mean when you're going into it attempting to change the other person's mind.

I would imagine that "corrective rape" (Christ that's an awful concept. Not that other reasons for rape aren't also) would have mostly if not always female victims? I just can't imagine a man getting so outraged that another man never fancied anyone that he'd rape him?

Just more violence against women then.

Loops, you understand that many women who have a romantic but not sexual attraction to men do consider themselves straight/heterosexual?

There may be other women in the women's changing room who are using the shower or are in states of undress. Personally I don't want to get changed in front of male bodied strangers whether they keep their own clothes on or not.

From Wikipedia, for a start:

Heterosexuality is romantic attraction, sexual attraction or sexual behavior between persons of the opposite sex or gender. As a sexual orientation, heterosexuality is "an enduring pattern of emotional, romantic, and/or sexual attractions" to persons of the opposite sex; it "also refers to a person's sense of identity based on those attractions, related behaviors, and membership in a community of others who share those attractions."[1][2]

Along with bisexuality and homosexuality, heterosexuality is one of the three main categories of sexual orientation within the heterosexual–homosexual continuum.[1] Someone who is heterosexual is commonly referred to as straight.'

walking

As far as I know:

there have been cases of usually young men teens suspected of being gay that were forced to have intercourse with women.

But usually yes, in most cases corrective rape targets women. Often supported by their own parents... Or just as an excuse why someboy wanted to rape a woman, which then sometimes makes it socially acceptable.

*male teens

Thanks Cricket Horrible. I was thinking of when asexual people are victims specifically though.

gay referring to women is recent, otherwise lesbian wouldn't be required, you'd have GBA which would cover all your bases (same, different, none).

Actually it is not! It was used for homosexuals of both sexes as soon as it started to be used. Lesbian is not really required in whatever list of letter names you might be using, though it is a useful word in its own right.

cricket I read a thing which described micro-aggressions as similar to water torture, like the existence of them doesn't lessen the existence of other forms of aggression, many of which are terrible and significant, but these things can still be incredibly difficult when they happen on a daily basis, and they can lead to real emotional damage. This isn't just the case for trans people, many people can experience micro-aggressions, and some of those people also experience other forms of aggression as well.

(sorry if that's what you were referring to as well)

Ah...
Well, that's something loop may be more equipped to answer.

loop

Yes. And I have read things about actual water boarding...

I have definitely experienced micro agressions. But they were in no way comparable to the actual agressions I've experienced. However, luckily never water boarding...

How can you compare these things? It makes no sense.