WIBU in the public library?

[NatureIsAWhore]

I was using the computer in the local public library, I have a membership card.

A man came in and I overheard his conversation at the desk about needing to use a computer quickly to send some funds as his van had broken down, we're in a village so no banks. He wasn't from the area and didn't have a membership of the relevant documents for getting one (local household bill etc). He offered to pay just for 5 minutes use. He seemed pretty desperate. But the lady at the desk said that he couldn't as it's for members only.
They were both polite, but I could tell that the guy was frustrated. As I would be, stuck in a village and no wifi, needing to do something which would help his situation but was unable to do so.

So I called over and offered him to use my account for 5 minutes. He was very grateful, and still offered to pay. He sorted whatever he needed to do and then said thanks lots & left.

Then the lady came over to me and told me that I had breached to t&ts of becoming a member and that she would have to forefit my account!!

I now can't use my library because I did a nice thing!

WIBU to offer? i it that bad? Or was she being a jobs worth?

" What if, during those few minutes he was logged on as you, he downloaded malware which took over all IT systems in your county council and others? "

oh don't be silly, users cannot download stuff on public computers, only admin can do that,

Of course he could download malware. How do you think the virus got in the nhs computers. Some people will have clicked on a link on an email that then infected their computer and then spread so he could have done the same. Or he could have used the library computer to send the email in the first place to thousands of accounts and be untraceable as he is using someone else's account.

I'd public shame, too, and report the librarian to someone higher. What a bitch

elkegel: A man in a van doesn't have a phone? Unlikely.

Op already explained - there was no wifi.

I'm totally backing Naturals - we need more anarchists - especially in the library.

Libraries are generally accessible to people from other areas but to join you still need to provide the level of ID that the authority requires.

The idea that someone in a van who had complicated and urgent financial dealings to do didn't have a phone which would permit him to do them is seriously weird.

In the event of this being an area with only a limited signal, librarians would know exactly where the signal was. 'They'd say go down the road, along the footpath, and you'll find there's a signal at the bench on top of the hill.'

Also, I'd suggest the original poster gets herself a cheap printer. She clearly doesn't like libraries much or have a great deal of understanding about what they - and their staff - do.

The authority I worked for will sometimes impose temporary bans. So if the original poster does actually value the service her library provides, she could ask for a temporary suspension - which would allow the staff a bit of a break from somebody who'd chosen to challenge and disregard them - and promise to keep to the membership rules when she returned.

We do actually check the ids, you know - we don't just give access to £10,000s worth of book stock and work computers and the giant quantities of expensive consumer electronics that people leave lying around. And I'm sure it's the same in public libraries. So if I walk in with a council tax bill and gas bill for Mrs Smith how would you know if I was Mrs Smith? Where I live there are lots of large old houses converted to flats and the post is generally left in the hall and people grab their own. If I wanted false ID I would either grab someone else's post from the same house or walk into one of the houses without a secured frontdoor (not unusual) and have a look through the post. From visiting people I can tell you there is often piles of post no one has picked up.

Mrs Smith would be real, the address would be real, with a bit of luck Mrs Smith would be on the voters register. Unfortunately I wouldn't be Mrs Smith but you wouldn't know.

We do actually check the ids

Against what? Do you do a proper id check, i.e. formal photo id (such as passport or photo driving licence) AND paper id (such as utility bill, bank statement, etc)? Do you properly record the ID documents seen and the details printed on them? Do you check against voter's registers or other databases of addresses?

If you don't you're wasting your time and just performing a "tick box" exercise that means nothing.

Far too easy to get informal photo id, such as another form of "identification" card, such as the over 18 student ID card for pubs etc, or id cards purportedly to be for other organisations or employers (like staff id cards). You can make those things yourself with a simple PC and printer and cheap laminator from Rymans. So, unless it's a passport or photo driving licence, not worth the paper it's written on.

As said above, easy to steal a utility bill or bank statement from someone's letterbox or recycling bin. Also easy to forge your own with a scanner, PC and printer.

If it's SO important that identification is provided, and if so many serious crimes are committed in public libraries, (as posters above claim, i.e. porn, money laundering, london bombers!) then the security/identity checks should be taken seriously and properly done using only formal documents followed up with some kind of cross-check. If that's not done, it's just a pointless, box-ticking jobsworth exercise that's a waste of time. Any serious criminal intent on using a library computer would just steal/forge some ID to do it!

If people want to object to the principle of ID checks - on the grounds that fraud is possible - before using any public and or commercial services that's fine. It's just they may find it hard to open a bank account, get a place at school for their children, rent a home etc.

If it's a more selective approach where there is hostility directed towards libraries in particular, I'd suggest that people with an 'entitled' approach - ie. they should be be able what they want, when they want it without any kind of delay or restriction - , simply don't use them. They can buy books, use commercial internet cafes and generally take care of their own information needs.

However, if there comes a point when for one reason or another they're stuck - they've run out of money, they can't find the information they need, their mobile phone or printer is not functioning - I suggest that when they go into the library, they attempt to treat staff with appropriate courtesy.

If it's a more selective approach where there is hostility directed towards libraries in particular, I'd suggest that people with an 'entitled' approach - ie. they should be be able what they want, when they want it without any kind of delay or restriction - , simply don't use them. They can buy books, use commercial internet cafes and generally take care of their own information needs. Well we can all remember how valued we are the next time you are asking for support to keep the library open and protect your job.

Also just to point out the OP said the guy was polite and offered to pay, he wanted 5 minutes in an emergency. You should have suitable protection on the computers, you could supervise his use and if the OP was making a mistake she could have been told that was an issue rather than waiting till after it was done.

The library assistant allowed it to happen, she didn't ask the OP not to do it and although I am not usually one to get other people into trouble I do hope she gets into trouble about her failings.

So in a short-staffed library the member of staff go to supervise someone's online banking, watching over them as they enter their password and pincode.

Meanwhile s/he leaves other customers who are library members unattended, and the till accessible to whoever wants to help themselves.

Brilliant. I'll bear that in mind as I head off to work today. I'm sure my manager will be thrilled by my new working practices, courtesy of Mumsnet's in depth professional expertise.

It's just they may find it hard to open a bank account, get a place at school for their children, rent a home etc.

Which is exactly what happens if you can't produce evidence of your identity and address! Banks and letting agents do quite extensive checking and are properly trained as to "proper" ID that they can rely on as opposed to documents that don't mean anything. All those you mention may well post a letter to the address given to ensure the address is right too. All may also check other databases and undertake other checking procedures. What none will do is allow you to flash something you claim to be a works identity card or a credit card or a random piece of paper with a name & address on it, and take it as gospel you are who you are!

If ID checking is so important (which I strongly doubt for using a library PC for a short while), then it needs doing properly. If it's not done properly, it's not worth doing at all.

You embarrassed the library assistant so she punished you by revoking your membership.

She no doubt correctly applying the t&cs and was entitled to do it, but it will have been entirely in retaliation.

If I was feeling charitable I'd give her the benefit of the doubt and say she may have been completely disempowered by micromanagement, or had the customer service crushed out of her by the constant unreasonable demands of the public. But probably she's just an arse.

Where I live the local library service does not check IDs because they do not want to create barriers to people joining.

Other library services are different.

But you can use my county computers without needing ID. So it can't be that much of a requirement.

Mulledwine1 that is good to know. I checked at my library and they let visitors log on as visitors and there isn't a charge.

ElinorRigby you sound incredibly petulant. The person who was logged on was the one taking the chance, I assume they watched what was going on. The library assistant was clearly aware of what was going on. I don't see all this drama about undermining her, the OP was trying to be helpful and I'm sure if she had been told that she shouldn't have done it she wouldn't.

@badbadbunny and a@grannytomine

Yes - photo ID checked thoroughly. I don't know what other libraries do - but we are extremely thorough and we do check properly that the various forms of ID match against each other and the person in front of us. We don't phone the sodding DVLA to check the driving licence, because we actually do know what real vs fake licences look like.

Librarians are actually really heavily qualified grown ups, you know, not naive school children. We're honestly not making up all these nefarious goings on. Of course the vaaaast majority of use is completely reasonable but people do try shit on. The guy in the OP was was probably totally innocent but people asked about why such a policy would be in place and we explained. We don't fingerprint, so I suppose it's possible that an evil identical twin might be able to pull a fast one...

Could someone pull one over on me? Probably. But we'd know which individual it was, even if not their real identity, due to how our registration systems work, and have a lot of evidence e.g. CCTV to hand over to the police.

I actually have MASSIVE ethical problems with the idea of monitoring library and information use, and we don't actually collect a lot of data because academic freedom, but in the extremely unlikely event that the police come in with a proper court order because some terrorist cell has been using the computers I want to know that we did everything reasonable to prevent it.

So we check their bloody ID and we have policies against internet use without the correct ID.

My authority's ID checks meant that one of the London bombers was identified as having used some of our computers. A whole bank of the computers was taken away by the police. We have reported people for trying to print of pages of Isis beheadings, and not computer related, we are asked to forward details of anyone getting books about explosives via inter library loan. We ask for two forms of ID, one with an address which is cross checked, and one with a signature.

I don't consider myself a jobsworth - I think the assistant overreacted - but most of our stringent security rules have been implemented at the request of the police. And helping someone with a financial transaction is an absolute no-no. We were not allowed to do this Under any circumstances.

I can think of several instances where men have used library computers in the place where I used to work to groom underage girls via chatting on social media, and the police have come in with the relevant documents to ensure they can find out more about their library computer use.

It's not uncommon for family members who have lost library cards to pass library cards around in the family, so that whoever needs to go on a library computer. But whenever we realise this is happening we advise the person of the need to use their own log in - either via providing ID so we can look up their card number and password, or if their card is lost rather than misplaced, using the ID to issue them with a replacement card.

Yes - photo ID checked thoroughly.

But what do you accept as photo ID? Passports and photo driving licences are the only ones that are actually reliable due to the stringent checks done by the issuing authorities.

Other types, such as OAP bus passes, employment ID cards, etc are easily/cheaply forged by someone with a computer and a trip to Rymans to buy a cheap laminator, or are easily obtained by someone intent on gaining a false identity by using stolen documents. Student ID cards for pubs, discounts etc are likewise easily forged. If you rely on anything like that, you're wasting your time. In fact, it's worse because it's giving you a false sense of security as to their identity which simply isn't justified.

Anything other than a passport or photo driving licence isn't worth the paper it's printed on.