WIBU in the public library?

[NatureIsAWhore]

I was using the computer in the local public library, I have a membership card.

A man came in and I overheard his conversation at the desk about needing to use a computer quickly to send some funds as his van had broken down, we're in a village so no banks. He wasn't from the area and didn't have a membership of the relevant documents for getting one (local household bill etc). He offered to pay just for 5 minutes use. He seemed pretty desperate. But the lady at the desk said that he couldn't as it's for members only.
They were both polite, but I could tell that the guy was frustrated. As I would be, stuck in a village and no wifi, needing to do something which would help his situation but was unable to do so.

So I called over and offered him to use my account for 5 minutes. He was very grateful, and still offered to pay. He sorted whatever he needed to do and then said thanks lots & left.

Then the lady came over to me and told me that I had breached to t&ts of becoming a member and that she would have to forefit my account!!

I now can't use my library because I did a nice thing!

WIBU to offer? i it that bad? Or was she being a jobs worth?

"It was vvv obvious he was applying for a nob."

Oh I say! How absolutely frightful!

So, do libraries have different legal responsibilities to internet cafes or all the other places that offer free wifi, such as shops, cafes, sports stadia, shopping centres etc? People are justifying this stance by mentioning internet crime, porn, etc., but does that stand any scrutiny or is it just people trying to justify jobsworth rules? Would McDonalds be held liable if crimes were being committed by someone using their free wifi??

As for proving identity, etc., do libraries actually check the identity and address of people applying to join? Do they do what lots of other businesses are required to do, i.e. check passports, utility bills, etc., or do they just accept what you put on your application form? If they don't do any formal identity checking, then having a membership card means nothing as the name and/or address could be fraudulent.

Perhaps some of those who say they are librarians could address these two questions?

I'm on the fence here.

I work in the computer area of my library and we wouldn't have let this guy have access (visitor or local) without some form of ID, but we accept bank cards, prescriptions and letters as ID so it's rare to turn people away.

I would have been a bit suspicious if this guy had driven to my area without any sort of ID ( but maybe your library demands a passport or driving licence).

We are pretty strict on only allowing the registered user to log on, but they can allow others to use the computer as long as they are present.

It seems far to far to ban you for breaking the T&Cs. A quiet warning, fine but a ban is entirely over kill.

Badbadbunny, my library simply accept you are who you say you are providing you show us something "official" with a name on it. In order to be accessible to as many people as possible we don't ask for proof of address - this would cause a problem for our many homeless customers for example.

I'm not sure we have a greater liability in regards to people downloading inappropriate material but as a publicly funded body we do have to be careful.

Libraries usually ask for utility bills etc to show proof of your address when you join.

Not sure about internet cafes but I guess if people are using free wifi but on their own phone/ipad the wifi provider wouldn't be responsible for what they do on it. In the library you are using their computers.

Different councils have different criteria for checking identity when joining the library.

All members need to log on with their own membership card though. Members get 1 hour free a day.

1.) this prevents someone from sitting on a computer all day (using family members memberships to log on)
2.) when tracking a members activity when suspected of criminal activity it can be traced to a specific member.

It is very common in the library I work in for people to try to use other people's memberships to log in (ask if you've finished can I hop on the computer while you're logged in?) that sort of thing. It's always the same people as they've used their free time up already. Sometimes going from library to library.

As mentioned we've had police orders tracking certain members activity.

There are reasons why you cannot use other people's accounts. There are guest passes available for a reason.

The library would not be held liable for criminal activity, but the individual member who logged on would be.

Another public sector employee being a jobsworth.

I work in higher education and we are not allowed to let anyone use our accounts obviously but of course our useless management and IT support have no facilities for logging in guests, so if we have a guest lecturer or speaker the only way to get them on the system is to log in as yourself for them to use! this is common practice with managers knowledge, but still against policy she should have used her discretion and you were nice!

I think that was mean of the librarian given that the man was trying to deal with a broken down car.

It isn't her fault there are rules, but if the rules are that rigid it makes me think the management of her library are incompetent at hiring people, if they can't trust them to make off the cuff decisions about when to help people out in the interests of making the public aware of how useful libraries can be.

I bet that guy only gets books for free on Kindle now.

Libraries usually ask for utility bills etc to show proof of your address when you join.

On it's own, that's not adequate "proof" for legal purposes. Could be the wrong name, could be a stolen bill from a letterbox or recycling bin, could be a bill found in the street. So, basically, proves nothing, but of course will be a "ticked box" for a jobsworth.

The library would not be held liable for criminal activity, but the individual member who logged on would be.

So, it's the person themselves who takes that risk, not the library, so why are people on here suggesting that the library would be liable????

I'm not sure we have a greater liability in regards to people downloading inappropriate material but as a publicly funded body we do have to be careful.

So you think you have to be careful, but don't know why and don't know whether you have a liability???? Sounds like you're being over-cautious unnecessarily.

In order to be accessible to as many people as possible we don't ask for proof of address - this would cause a problem for our many homeless customers for example.

So a homeless person could use the computer/internet, but someone who has broken down can't? How is that logical??

Why couldn't he have phoned his bank to transfer funds? Sounds fishy to me but it's not on my internet account, it's on yours!
I think he's a Nigerian prince involved in money laundering and you're gonna get sent daahn OP.
Enjoy your porridge.

By accepting the 'terms and conditions' of computer use a library member accepts responsibility (they have to accept these before log in is allowed)

This man did not log in as a member and therefore did not accept the terms and conditions.

I'm guessing he is well known to library staff and does this frequently, the OP (and others like her) think they are being helpful but they are facilitating misuse of library computers.

As a badly paid library assistant, it's not brilliant to be informed that people like me are 'jobsworths'.

Computers are a scarce resource and a great many people who aren't library users come in asking - or in some cases demanding - to use them.

We will sign people up as temporary members with more limited ID eg a bank card.

We do our best to help everybody - including people who are very needy and distressed and/or who have mental health problems and/or who come in with complicated queries.

However members of the public who try to undermine staff and encouraging others to disregard library policies make the jobs easier.

I think you did a nice thing. The librarian should have stopped you when you called him over if she thought the rules had to be strictly applied. Presumably she'd be in more trouble for watching you do it than if she'd stopped you at the start.

Last sentence should read.

'.. who try to undermine staff and who encourage others to disregard library policies don't make our jobs easier.'

Not only unkind of the librarian when she could have turned a blind eye, but also ineffective and a little vindictive - she must have noticed when you called him over, and could have stopped and warned you then, if she were that het up about it, rather than watching you then punishing you.

Ridiculous. Complain.

badbadbunny

My public library (which will remain anonymous) require absolutely NO ID to join, we will simply take the details that you give us and register them.
Its stunningly awful, people are always denying that it was them who borrowed the books that are overdue and someone must have used their details to join - and we have zero comeback.
Hundreds of thousands of books and dvds lost this way...

Also we have had no extra briefing regarding security/hacking concerns. Not even an email...

"This man did not log in as a member and therefore did not accept the terms and conditions.I'm guessing he is well known to library staff and does this frequently"

Really? I thought it was clear that he was from another area and just needed one-off emergency access to a computer to transfer funds.

I work in a library and we have been approached by the police who required information on certain individuals that were carrying out illegal actions online. These individuals would try to use other people's memberships to log on.

This is the crux of it - there are licensing agreements and rules surrounding the use of PCs and other library resources for a reason. I promise you we are not making up the bad shit that happens and we have to be extremely careful - quite apart from anything else it's often a safeguarding issue for children.

Basically, we must know who is using the computers. And if he didn't have id, which is the real issue here, he was shit out of luck.

(also, total aside, the person in the library was highly unlikely to have been an actual qualified librarian with the authority to make that kind of call, because local authorities employ so few these days and they're almost always back office - a library assistant has an awful lot of responsibilities and policies to follow for really wank pay. That said if this one were my library assistant we'd be having a lengthy chat about customer service principles and how to apply them in difficult situations. I would have been strict about the use but I wouldn't have let you do it and then banned you.)

Oh, and whilst his story was probably totally true, moving money around is one of these nefarious things.

Holy crap @AlpacaPicnic how the hell are they getting away with that?? There's actual regulations covering this stuff in most places!

Christ only knows...

No ID, nothing with name and address, not even just name ID. Oh, and we're 'paperless' so we just ask and type the details in. No forms, no records.

I've given up asking questions. I've mostly given up caring. I'm not arguing with people over lost books when the headbods don't seem to care.

PMSL at "applying for a nob"

• childish.