WIBU in the public library?

[NatureIsAWhore]

I was using the computer in the local public library, I have a membership card.

A man came in and I overheard his conversation at the desk about needing to use a computer quickly to send some funds as his van had broken down, we're in a village so no banks. He wasn't from the area and didn't have a membership of the relevant documents for getting one (local household bill etc). He offered to pay just for 5 minutes use. He seemed pretty desperate. But the lady at the desk said that he couldn't as it's for members only.
They were both polite, but I could tell that the guy was frustrated. As I would be, stuck in a village and no wifi, needing to do something which would help his situation but was unable to do so.

So I called over and offered him to use my account for 5 minutes. He was very grateful, and still offered to pay. He sorted whatever he needed to do and then said thanks lots & left.

Then the lady came over to me and told me that I had breached to t&ts of becoming a member and that she would have to forefit my account!!

I now can't use my library because I did a nice thing!

WIBU to offer? i it that bad? Or was she being a jobs worth?

Considering the events worldwide in the last few days re malware I imagine any organisation would take a very dim view of anyone facilitating unauthorised access to IT equipment.

Jobsworth

The Librarian is a fuckwit.

This scenario highlights and brings to mind so much that is wrong in our society: Being deterred or penalised for being a Good Samaritan, being too afraid to intervene or fight back in a risky situation due to fear of police intervention, and a complete lack of punishment for those who have actually done wrong.

MarcelineTheVampire I agree with your post 100%. This was a perfect example of when an exception should be made to the rules, for the sake of sheer common sense and kindness.

badbadbunny - "As seen in this thread, people are making up all kinds of "justifications" citing security, porn, criminals, etc., but havn't the faintest idea whether the library itself can ever be legally responsible for someone using their computer system - they say that's the reason, but don't actually know that's true."

In some cases we can, but mostly it's about ensuring that criminal activity isn't committed on our premises. Information security is a real and seriously important thing - see recent events in the NHS for a good example of why (not the same situation at all, I'm just giving another example. The policy probably isn't even the library's - it's almost certainly come from the information services for the council that runs it. But nevertheless it needs to be enforced for the various reasons that ElinorRigbylaid out earlier.

And we're really not making this shit up. I work in a considerably posher library than your average local authority one, with a very different set of users, and I've seen, prevented and produced policies against computer misuse for extremely good reasons. I can only imagine how much more traumatic it must be when working with very difficult members of the public in public libraries. Which is why I don't work in one.

I've already said that I think the library assistant behaved badly in this case but her shit handling of the situation doesn't negate the need for the policy.

It is a weird scenario.

Most people do have emergency services cover for breakdowns. And they have a variety of plastic cards - debit and credit - that can be used.

So this 'I am stranded and I need cash urgently' is very like the email scams where your friends are stranded abroad.

There's nothing to suggest that the library assistant mightn't show kindness and flexibility in certain circumstances. Or consult her/his manager about whether to waive the normal rules.

But in the opinion of the library assistant this simply might not qualify as one of the circumstances.

(An example that came up in my workplace was when a disabled person with communication difficulties came in to the library because the police station was closed and they were worried that an elderly parent was the victim of abuse. Staff phoned the police on this person's behalf without hesitation.)

Given that someone could walk in with stolen ID I'm not really sure that the security element of this is reasonable. If someone wants to use a library computer for 5 minutes for illicit reasons they are probably going to be the sort of people who would be able to produce a stolen credit card or something similar.

Surely computers that are being used by the public have software to stop them accessing porn or whatever.

We require photo ID.

There's nothing to suggest that the library assistant mightn't show kindness and flexibility in certain circumstances. Or consult her/his manager about whether to waive the normal rules.

I'm a library assistant, (well, my official title is different). When I work weekends and evenings, I'm in charge. If someone couldn't provide the necessary ID and an email address, I wouldn't create an account for them. In my case, we can direct them to the public library, five minutes away. (I work in an academic library.)

Guest accounts are taken very seriously. Staff have been reprimanded for not following procedure. I would resent being called a jobsworth for doing my job because it suggests that I am completely inflexible. I am flexible when I can be. Creating accounts for people without proper ID is not one of those times.

I honestly think providing no ID and wanting to use a public computer to move cash about are red flags in terms of some kind of crime involving money about in a way that means the person doing the moving can't be traced..

People are very plausible in terms of sounding distressed in such circumstances.

I''ve never had to produce photo ID for my library membership. So if I'm not a driver and don't have a passport (I don't as my husband is disabled and foreign travel isn't possible) I can't have an account? Nothing like treating the poor and the elderly as second class citizens. I do have a driving licence but it is the only photo ID I have so if I wasn't a driver it would be just tough luck. Although the OP doesn't mention photo ID.

YABU the library gave you access & you didn't adhere to terms of use.

It's almost laughable that you think libraries should have a couple of pay as you go machines for such eventualities. Do you know how many funding cuts libraries have faced over the years with constant threat of losing staff and resources.

What if you hadn't been near enough to overhear his story? I think you were perhaps well meaning but naive to let him access your account / library resource after the library staff had already said no.

Andylion, works - I think - in a university library. It's likely that if you were studying and/or working in a university that you'd have to supply some sort of photo ID, as this tends to be needed for security reasons.

Community libraries tend to ask for proof in the form of bills or official letters that have your address on. Libraries are used a great deal by the elderly and by those who have very little money.

Given that someone could walk in with stolen ID I'm not really sure that the security element of this is reasonable

Daft and specious argument. You could say that for anything: given that anyone could have a stolen driving licence then the security of having licenses to drive is unreasonable...etc.

It doesn't work.

Totally unreasonable. I worked in a library and we had instructions from the police to not let people use our computers without id. We did have drop in ones but they were removed on police advice as some of our authority's library computers had been used by the London bombers.

Maybe the woman overreacted in taking away your card, but then your behaviour totally undermined her authority in her job, and I imagine she was pretty pissed off with you.

Well the thing about photo ID isn't really relevant is it, it wasn't an academic library so he could have got hold of someones post and arrived with ID.

Driving a car is a bit different to using a computer, the driving licence is required by law and no one is saying someone should be able to drive without a licence. I think the police have more resources to track down non licensed drivers, libraries aren't the same at all. I can't quite picture the ladies in my local library going on dawn raids but then I can't imagine them refusing to help someone in trouble either. I've seen them sitting with an elderly lady who clearly had dementia and I think they were probably breaking the rules by going through her handbag and trying to help her understand how her bank card worked including finding her PIN number that was in her purse.

As many people have said, libraries are public spaces used by a very wide variety of people including some who attempt to make use of the facilities for criminal purposes.

There's a balance between creating a space that is accessible and welcoming, but also trying to make sure that its facilities are used for legal purposes.

Ensuring that it's possible to link computer use to a particular user - who is a registered library member - is part of creating that environment.

Marcelinethevampire, you would be surprised! I can think of four incidents where men have been banned for "inappropriate behaviour" (i.e. Wanking while using the library computers).

And our cctv contains numerous examples of sexual activity - blow jobs, full on sex. We all knew the hidden areas where people would get frisky!

I used to complain that I was being discriminated against as a non-driver until someone told me about an ID card I could get. It used to be called a "non-drivers" licence. It's identical to a driver's licence in my province except for the colour. Obviously, I still had to pay for it, though, so those who can't afford that cost would still be out of luck.

I understand that things are different in an academic library. I just posted to give my experience in a similar situation.

She was being a jobsworth. I've worked for two library authorities and in both of those he would have been allowed to jump on a computer for 5 mins.

But I think the point is that authorities come down in different places when trying to balance accessibility and security.

One poster described working in a library which didn't demand ID when people joined up. As a result stock disappeared and the staff were in despair. People do join libraries - which is completely free - in order to access a textbook which costs £40 - and then they and the textbook may never be seen again.

Other libraries will opt for more checks in order to protect their resources.

If you work for an authority with interenet security policies which you have to sign up to, then opt to disregard them on the grounds you think they're stupid and you know better, it usually ends up as a disciplinary matter.

"Given that someone could walk in with stolen ID I'm not really sure that the security element of this is reasonable"

We do actually check the ids, you know - we don't just give access to £10,000s worth of book stock and work computers and the giant quantities of expensive consumer electronics that people leave lying around. And I'm sure it's the same in public libraries.

This might out me but the funniest attempt at providing proof of address I ever saw 's handed to a good friend at work. College student, too young for bills, so we asked for something from their college with an address on it on headed notepaper. The student handed over a reprimand from their head teacher for verbally abusing a teacher and throwing rocks at their car...

Why couldn't he use 3G?

Not everyone has a smartphone at all times. I don't even own one.

I'm trying to put myself in this man's position and I still can't work out why he'd need to transfer money. You'd just phone a breakdown recovery place to pick you up, or a friend or a taxi.

A man in a van doesn't have a phone? Unlikely. I could understand it more if his phone was out of charge and he'd asked to use the library phone or where there was a payphone.