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AIBU?

Ian Brady, AIBU

176 replies

SayHelloDoris · 16/05/2017 00:47

I just need to vent here as the people or Facebook love a bandwagon to jump on.

No, of course he wasn't going to announce where the boy was buried. He's kept it secret for all those years, do you really think he would've told anyone at the last minute? No. He hasn't the empathy for it. Basic Criminal profile will tell you this ten times over. You cannot expect mercy and closure from such a human monster.

Furthermore, no, torture and the death penalty shouldn't be brought back. Firstly, basic human rights, regardless of who you are, and secondly, and most importantly, blurred lines. Yes, Ian Brady most certainly deserved it however where will these penalties stop? Will there be falsely accused individuals throughout the years if it was brought back into practise? Probably.

Anyone else agree with anything I've said? Yes, he was a despicable human being but he didn't think like us and isn't of a normal thinking. He was truly a monster is human form. Natural human empathy cannot be expected by such killers.

OP posts:

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Fluffypinkpyjamas · 17/05/2017 01:37

With you on that cheese They are in no way a better person. Lacking in something though to be able to give a fuck about someone that tortures and murders children.

Willyoujustbequiet · 17/05/2017 01:39

I have no problem with the death penalty, especially not in such a case as this. I believe he forfeited his human rights the minute he tortured and murdered innocent children.

Having said that, seeing as he wanted to die I'm glad he wasn't allowed to.

CheeseQueen · 17/05/2017 01:43

Having said that, seeing as he wanted to die I'm glad he wasn't allowed to.

Conflicted on this - think should have been put out of his misery so less money being spent on the waste of space, but also glad that he wasn't because it was exactly what he wanted.
Glad he didn't get to choose and had to suffer in the end. Hopefully a very painful one.

Pallisers · 17/05/2017 02:05

Lacking in something though to be able to give a fuck about someone that tortures and murders children.

Not wanting a man who tortures and murders children to be tortured and murdered himself is NOT giving a fuck about him.

It is about giving a fuck about the society in which you live and the rules by which it lives.

I suspect some posters who think it would be ok to daily torture Brady (would you be doing that yourselves?) and execute him are highly critical of the US which does execute murderers and has in the recent past used torture. As has the UK.

Beerwench · 17/05/2017 02:31

Regarding IB being found to not have mental illness at his trial and sentenced to prison, then years later found to be mentally ill and transferred to a secure hospital - I was under the impression that he was found to have mental illness due to his hunger strikes and attempts to take his own life, therefore assessed and moved where treatment (food and maybe medication?) Could be forcibly administered. No official body (prisons etc) could stand by and let a person starve themselves to death without intervention. Therefore after repeated attempts he is hospitalised and 'treated'.

My personal opinion is that as a psychopath, he needed control, and hunger strike was the only way left. This was (thankfully!) Denied. I think possibly the lack of control over his life was as close to feeling as he could get? Therefore IMO, removing his ability to have that control was the best punishment possible.
The fact that he spent years trying to get sent back to prison to get control again and go on hunger strike would to me, indicate that.
I'm no expert though, just what came to mind.
I'd like to think, had I needed to nurse him, I'd have been professional, but I think it would take someone stronger than me to do that.

I can understand the anger and fear behind people saying they hope he died tortured etc - it's the mark of a civilized society we don't let things like that happen. Doesn't stop individuals feeling like that.

I also think it's quite possible he didn't know where Keith was buried, but he knew how desperate everyone was, not least his family, for answers and lead people to believe he did know, so he still had the attention - and control as perceived by others.

SuperBeagle · 17/05/2017 02:34

You're spot on Beer

Didn't they make efforts to find Keith's remains with Myra? I could be wrong in thinking that, but I thought someone involved had assisted them in attempting to locate them, but it was determined that because of the way the moors move, they'd likely never recover them.

avocadosripe · 17/05/2017 06:52

I always wonder why this case elicits so much publicity, though? Is it because a woman was involved?

Alonsypot · 17/05/2017 07:24

Brilliant post mermaid. I have a lot of respect for the work you do.

FruitCider · 17/05/2017 08:02

And it's Brady - there's no e.

Of course, because spelling is more important that the topic at hand

Anyway, I've thought about it overnight and I won't ring Mersey care but i really hope RoseGold reflects on either bragging or lying about knowing someone that works with IB and stating they have disclosed medical information about them. These things can have serious consequences.

avocadosripe · 17/05/2017 08:04

In fairness to fruit, while she's been OTT, I was surprised to see that someone had shared it with someone who shared it with MN.

Confidentiality doesn't stop when you're a convicted killer!

Aeroflotgirl · 17/05/2017 08:09

I agree with you Beer, I gather from reports that he was of sound mind, but because of the repeated hunger strikes that coukd not be managed in prison, he was sent to a hospital. Again it's about control. Mental illness can only be used as an explanation of why he did what he did, but it is not an excuse!

Sionella · 17/05/2017 08:17

Didn't he claim to have studied psychology and acting so he could pretend to be insane? How would you ever know? That's a proper catch 22 situation.

Some people who really did treat him have spoken to the press - one even wrote a book about him after working with him for about 10 years. I wouldn't want to read it!

Sionella · 17/05/2017 08:25

His lawyer is also in the paper today giving details of his last hours - apparently he is also writing a book

Ceto · 17/05/2017 08:32

I'm not sure about your argument against the deaths penalty. You say everyone deserves basic human rights, then say that Brady was a monster in human form and that he lacked humanity. So why should someone who does not behave with humanity then receive human rights

Because the fact remains that he is a person. And we can't claim to be better than monsters if we start acting according to their standards.

Ceto · 17/05/2017 08:33

I bet the the families of the poor murdered children would have probably wanted him to face the death penalty. If it was my child - without a shadow of a doubt.

Me too. However, I really don't think the entire justice system should be run to appease my atavistic revenge instincts.

Ceto · 17/05/2017 08:34

Sionella, no-one could keep up a pretence of insanity for 50 years.

BertrandRussell · 17/05/2017 08:38

"The reason that KCC didn't build the crossing was because they didn't have the money. If the mney spent on Bradey had been used to build the crossing it would have saved a life."

Jade's Crossing was built, entirely understandably, as an emotional response to the death. It is very rarely used. In terms of cold, hard, practical fact, it is not a good use of money. Symbolically and emotionally, it's obviously a different story.

Dawndonnaagain · 17/05/2017 08:42

It's no good saying would you feel that way. Nobody knows how they would feel or what they would do in the circumstances. Equally, calling Brady all the names in the world doesn't help. He was ill, that's a fact, it can't be changed. He was evil, that too is a fact. We presume that it was due to his illness that he did the terrible things he did.
The death penalty in the US has not served as any sort of deterrent. If people are ill and unable to control their awful impulses, then a death penalty will not enable them to control said impulses. In fact in some cases it's been shown to encourage people to continue killing because their delusional behaviours enable them to think that they are both above the law and too clever to be caught.

SayHelloDoris · 17/05/2017 08:44

Beer But a lot of these people frothing away don't just feel like they wanted him tortured etc etc.

These people actually agree that death sentences and/torture should be brought back for extreme cases.

Not all of them, but a lot of them if asked.

OP posts:

harlequinblue · 17/05/2017 08:51

It's my hope that Brady's remains will not be allowed to have a grave.

Sionella · 17/05/2017 09:01

Ceto - I agree with you - and of course he didn't win/get his transfer. And I would argue that he couldn't have done what he did unless he had mental health problems in the first place!

But he'd obviously been able to put a lot of thought and effort into it, and was intelligent and articulate enough to present a decent case on it.

Mermaidinthesea123 · 17/05/2017 09:05

Thank you Alonsypot.

Sionella · 17/05/2017 10:42

This is interesting from the prison governor, if it's true:

www.google.co.uk/amp/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/17/exclusive-ian-brady-planted-money-victims-grave-ploy-avoid-death/amp/

Beerwench · 17/05/2017 10:48

"Beer But a lot of these people frothing away don't just feel like they wanted him tortured etc etc.

These people actually agree that death sentences and/torture should be brought back for extreme cases.

Not all of them, but a lot of them if asked"

Doris - no amount of torture, or death, would have brought back those children, or eased the suffering of their families. I agree with that, I just think it doesn't necessarily make someone a bad person to react emotionally. As I stand now, I wouldn't want torture or the death penalty brought back - if my child were missing and the only person who knew where they were refused to tell? I bet I'd be willing to try anything - because it would be an emotional response.

I think a lot of it is an emotional response, and these crimes were horrific and elicited massive emotional response, for me it was the tapes, I've never heard even a clip, but what gets the most emotion from me is that. As it was recorded every time it was heard, it must have been torture to those listening, instincts to protect yet knowing they cannot. I can't wrap my head around that at all.

Another point too, if IB was diagnosed with mental illness, he wouldn't have been executed anyway would he? (Genuine question) I understand he was diagnosed after conviction, but surely appeals etc may delay the actual execution and he could well have been diagnosed by that point? So he couldn't have been executive while suffering from a mental illness?

Fluffypinkpyjamas · 17/05/2017 12:10

Anyway, I've thought about it overnight and I won't ring Mersey care

Oh I am sure Rose will sleep better knowing that. Saved yourself from looking daft too eh.

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