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AIBU?

Ian Brady, AIBU

176 replies

SayHelloDoris · 16/05/2017 00:47

I just need to vent here as the people or Facebook love a bandwagon to jump on.

No, of course he wasn't going to announce where the boy was buried. He's kept it secret for all those years, do you really think he would've told anyone at the last minute? No. He hasn't the empathy for it. Basic Criminal profile will tell you this ten times over. You cannot expect mercy and closure from such a human monster.

Furthermore, no, torture and the death penalty shouldn't be brought back. Firstly, basic human rights, regardless of who you are, and secondly, and most importantly, blurred lines. Yes, Ian Brady most certainly deserved it however where will these penalties stop? Will there be falsely accused individuals throughout the years if it was brought back into practise? Probably.

Anyone else agree with anything I've said? Yes, he was a despicable human being but he didn't think like us and isn't of a normal thinking. He was truly a monster is human form. Natural human empathy cannot be expected by such killers.

OP posts:

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Instasista · 16/05/2017 20:31

Fruit I don't think anyone disagrees with you. But why do you think IB was one such man? He never appealed on the basis that he should've been identified as having diminished responsibility. God knows he could've found enough lawyers and barristers who would've loved to be part of that legal milestone. There is no evidence he could.

Aeroflotgirl · 16/05/2017 20:33

Sorry Ashworth Hospital. Sorry all my sympathies are with the victims and their families. Hearing that poor Lesley Anne Downy begging for her life on that tape, will haunt me.

FruitCider · 16/05/2017 20:36

Even in his final years he disputed he was unwell. He never accepted his illness. At 113 pages long, it's an extremely long read but his 2013 mental health act tribunal report is an interesting read... p. 18 onwards talks about his mental health at the time of sentencing, all the way to his transfer to hospital in 1985.

www.judiciary.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/JCO/Documents/Judgments/ian-brady-mh-tribunal-240114.pdf

TwatParking · 16/05/2017 20:39

twatparking I was responding to your post below, which doesn't mention loss of liberty.

"Punishment is to live with the consequences and knowledge of your actions, "

Yes and one of the consequences was his loss of liberty! what did you think it meant?

Instasista · 16/05/2017 20:46

Oh sorry. It wasn't very clear

FruitCider · 16/05/2017 20:51

My thoughts are, personality disorders were not accepted as mental health conditions requiring treatment until the 80s, and even then not much research had gone into treatment. To detain someone under the mental health you have to have treatment available to them. Therefore I think they focused on the fleeting psychosis prevalent in his schizoid antisocial personality disorder and made an argument for him having a psychotic illness alongside his personality disorder. The language of his tribunal report is very telling - it says repeated he has a severe personality disorder of a psychopathic/schizoid type, but then asserts in the same sentence he does not have a mental illness present. You wouldn't see that today!

SuperBeagle · 16/05/2017 20:55

He was a psychopath. That doesn't diminish your criminal responsibility. It's not a mental illness in the sense that it can be used as a defence.

FruitCider · 16/05/2017 20:57

Psychopathy - antisocial personality disorder.

Personality disorder - mental illness.

No, it doesn't diminish responsibility. But we have to take into account the culture at that time e.g. Not really acknowledging personality disorders.

TwatParking · 16/05/2017 20:58

It's pretty much the biggest consequence so not sure what ones you thought I meant.

PortiaCastis · 16/05/2017 20:58

Yep a cruel bastard kiddie murderer !!

SuperBeagle · 16/05/2017 20:58

No, we don't. Psychopaths have existed forever. There is no treatment for psychopathy. They know what they are doing is wrong and they are fully in control of their acts - THAT is the test for the defence.

Butterymuffin · 16/05/2017 21:00

Exactly superbeagle. He was a psychopath, which means his responses were different to most human beings. But it doesn't mean he wasn't responsible for what he did.

FruitCider · 16/05/2017 21:01

No, we don't. Psychopaths have existed forever. There is no treatment for psychopathy. They know what they are doing is wrong and they are fully in control of their acts - THAT is the test for the defence.

Are you a mental health professional? If you are, you've never worked with someone with ASPD that has had diminished responsibility? Really? I find that hard to believe.

Butterymuffin · 16/05/2017 21:05

Are you a mental health professional, Fruit?

AngryGinger · 16/05/2017 21:07

Agree 100%

FruitCider · 16/05/2017 21:10

Yes I am... though my main area of work is detox, although around 60% of my patients have a personality disorder of some description and I see a lot of ASPD traits.

RoseGoldProsecco · 16/05/2017 21:16

My friend is a criminal psychologist and worked with him at ashworth. No, he has no remorse or what we would understand to be basic human feelings. His view is that mostly it's about control and that's why IB wouldn't say anything. But he also suspected that IB couldn't remember where he buried Keith Bennett but didn't want to admit it.

The death penalty gives me the shivers. It is not ok for a civilised society to do that, IMO, however much an individual might seem to deserve it.

FruitCider · 16/05/2017 21:19

My friend is a criminal psychologist and worked with him at ashworth. No, he has no remorse or what we would understand to be basic human feelings. His view is that mostly it's about control and that's why IB wouldn't say anything. But he also suspected that IB couldn't remember where he buried Keith Bennett but didn't want to admit it.

Your friend is a criminal psychologist at ashworth goldroseprosecco and you state they have disclosed information about Bradeys treatment to you? I'm sure Mersey Care NHS trust would be interested to hear this. I find their behaviour absolutely disgusting!

RoseGoldProsecco · 16/05/2017 21:27

No. He didn't treat Brady and so had no patient information to disclose - not that he would have done if he had - just an opinion like anyone else might have. I worded that v poorly. However, I find his opinion interesting, given his profession.

FruitCider · 16/05/2017 21:28

You stated you friend is a criminal psychologist and worked with him at Ashfield. So did your friend work with him, or not? If not, why lie?

PinkSparklyPussyCat · 16/05/2017 21:29

Of course no criminal has ever feigned insanity have they? Also, if Brady did have mental health problems, what was Hindley's excuse?

I have mixed feelings about the death penalty for Brady and Hindley. I have no issue in that they were guilty beyond any doubt. However Brady wanted to die so I sincerely hope that every single day of his life was miserable, knowing he would never get his wish until it was actually his time. Hindley wanted freedom and I'm pleased that, despite the best efforts of the repulsive Lord Longford, she never got it.

RoseGoldProsecco · 16/05/2017 21:35

sorry fruit, not telling you any more details in light of your tone, ta. But there was nothing shared that wasn't pure personal opinion or that you wouldn't read a hundred times over from different people on any of the newspaper comments. I've known my friend for over 20 years, he's worked at various criminal facilities, and he's far too professional to disclose confidential details of any patients. His job is fucking harrowing though, I can see how stressed he is sometimes.

Topseyt · 16/05/2017 21:38

I wouldn't want the return of the death penalty. The possibility of miscarriages of justice resulting in the killing of an innocent person is just too terrible to contemplate.

Brady was an evil monster. I don't really believe that he deserved to have his human rights respected when he so clearly had no regard for the human rights of his child victims and their families.

He wanted to die, but I am glad that he was forcefully kept alive to suffer, against his wishes.

He surely won't be missed. I am glad that both he and Myra Hindley are now dead without any of their ridiculous appeals having been successful.

FruitCider · 16/05/2017 21:38

Fine, being as you won't confirm that he does not work at ashworth, or confirm that you were lying about him disclosing personal information about Bradey, I'll be contacting the BPS and the NHS trust.

SuperBeagle · 16/05/2017 21:40

Fruit Nah, just a defence lawyer.

Psychopathy has never been used as a defence in any case I've worked on, and never would be. It's not a mental impairment in the legal sense. They are capable of knowing right from wrong and acting accordingly.

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