To think medical evidence is the key to PIP / ESA

[LovelyBath77]

Just this really. It seems to be having gone through it all, that if you have good medical letters etc from consultants and things like a care plan and prescription copies, it makes it all so much easier and there is less for them to argue with.

Unfortunately the woman who assessed me knew way better than my GP, several consultants who are world experts and my oral evidence. She reduced my award on the basis that I attend a pain clinic and can drive a car.

The appeal panel disagreed luckily but it's cost me a fortune and a huge amount of stress.

It's good to chat about the realities, what gets me is my word counts for nothing. Yet I can met a social worker once for 45min who will do care plan and basically repeat whatever I say is the problem ditto care agency who complete own care plan. They ask you what your needs are and write them down. And you never see them again.

Yet these are the things that carry weight not my word. It's waste to continually ask for repeat assement or care plans if nothing has changed but system does make you paranoid about having evidence on going basis.

Surely if you have been getting DLA PIP the whole point is you do get care either from family or a paid carer so their whole job is to make sure you wash and are clean. It's equally strange if you are getting DLA to pay for care then turn up dirty, woulnt put it passed them to say well we pay for care and you obviously manage without!

Waiting for my results, she didn't look around flat she said you have a wet room, yes. Report is probable going to say I climb out of normal bath no problem!

Still at least these sort of lies are easily overcome, same with steps in bungalow. If we lied to that level on forms surely they would disregard everything. They do it and no cons backs. Maybe if we got £100 per lie they would be more careful.

Place marking to have a good read later as thinking of applying for pip, but really not confident!
And this thread looks full of the really good advise
As always on MN' 😀

if we lied to that level on the forms surely they'd disregard everything

Worse. We'd be prosecuted for fraud and end up with a criminal record.

Same should apply to all these crafty assessors.

Very true!

You don't actually have to use the money to pay for care .You could spend it in casinos and a goat and the biggest TV ever if you so wanted to .

Its there to help you with the extra cost of the disability so yes you can buy in care from someone but you don't have to . That's clearly stated on the form and guidance notes .

If that was the case I'm pretty sure the government would have been giving out vouchers for aids
In fact last year this was suggested by the government that anyone who got points for aids could have it replaced with vouchers or not get it all as many of the aids used are often household items that don't come at an extra cost . They have I think put this aside at the moment but there is nothing to stop this coming into place at a future date .

It's is better to aim for points with assistance from another person and not aids as it's quite possible in the future any points awarded for use of aids maybe taken away

PIP assessor have some sort of idea what a disabled persons looks like in there head and if you don't fit the box it's hard to get the points .

They don't understand invisible disabilities like chronic pain Fibroglymia

So if you turn up looking like your not in pain even if you are ,if your appearance isn't matching your disabilities .they will do everything possible to mark you down .

the fact that you appear to do every day stuff like dress , wash , look presentable will be twisted this to say that you can cope and don't need the help .

It's never ever about your disabilities or the illness itself but how it affects you and it states this clearly on the form

So If you wear makeup it shows that you can sit or stand and apply it and you have use of your hands Therefore anything that might award you points for aids for cooking , washing dressing you won't get .

If you drink tea from a cup make sure your clear that it's a disabled mug with the two handles for support and not a standard mug

If you have problems with your hands or mental health problems like anxiety don't shake there hand as this points to you having no problems with your hands and that you have a strong grip .
your problems with your anxiety is seen that as you can shake hands with a stranger , maintain eye contact , hold a conversation you don't have a problem anymore

I just meant if you put on form you need physical help from another person to eat, wash and dress they would find it odd if they are paying you it and you turn up in pJs because you couldn't dress yourself.

Agree its a lot for other stuff, there no where on PIP that address food process. So you may get low points for aids for cooking but if you need help for everything else i.e. Shopping, putting shopping away, washing up, emptying bin, doing recycling (compulsory many places) there is no help. But because of your Disability it effects far more than just what they award you.

I sent in over 80pages of medical files and reports that backed up every claim I made on the form. Assessor told me there was too much to read it all and decision was made on some fantasy experience I wasn't aware of. I lost my mobility completely and gained zero points for my main problem which was evident at assessment and within the medical evidence files. I think they just tossed a coin. I was too scared and stressed out by the pip experience to appeal.

Akire
Just because someone is helping you it won't mean that the person is dressing you ,or washing you
caring for someone can be watching over them making sure they are safe and not a danger to themselves . It can be picking out your clothes to put on as you can't do it yourself
It can be preparing food for you because you can't stand up or cut stuff your yourself to eat it .
You can say that you have good family help that do a lot of stuff for you .
For example my mums friend has dementia. You try and get her up and dressed in regular clothes in the morning and it's like world war three starting .

She refuses shouts and screams so it's easier to let her stay in her pyjamas even if they are a bit dirty till late afternoon when she is more relaxed about getting changed
But if she went for an Assement at it was in the morning she would be unkempt ,a bit dirty , and wearing dirty clothes

She is being cared for but certain stuff she won't do in the mornings

So if you can imagine on a day of an Assement for someone with some mental health problems with regards to physical care they might not want to get dressed properly even if they manage it on other days or late afternoons with help.

Also clothes like t-shirts lounge wear crocs and flip flops are better to wear if you have mobilty problems or problems with dexterity as it's easier to get on and off without assistance and easier for people to get you dressed
Plus you can say to the assessor that you wear such clothes because it easy for you to get on with assistance
If your wearing shoes or trainers with laces they will assume that you put them on yourself and tied up the laces yourself
But if your wearing crocs or flip flops you can say that you wear them as they are the only things that are easy to put on
Your disability prevents you from wearing lace ups trainers if you see what I mean .

But fussy clothes with buttons zips, laces all point to you being able to do it yourself or rather that the way they will see it .

It's a game that you have to play and not a very nice one but you really have to think how each question can be refused and in what way they can refuse you in terms of descriptors .

Also clothes like t-shirts lounge wear crocs and flip flops are better to wear if you have mobilty problems or problems with dexterity as it's easier to get on and off without assistance and easier for people to get you dressed

I wore a t-shirt and some tracksuit trousers to mine with some slip on shoes. The assessor said I had no trouble doing up the buttons on my shirt. I didn't have any on my t-shirt, or my trousers

I'm grateful for the info on this thread - did any of you have someone with you during the assessment? My mum is taking me as my assessment is at 8.10 in the morning in an unfamiliar part of the city, and has said she'll help me with questions if I need it, because I sometimes struggle to explain myself when it comes to my difficulties.

I'm scared, I've been in a state of anxiety over this since February and just know I'm going to end up appealing :(

Pixie
In that case your perfectly justified in appealing
as the assessor is clearly blind & stupid

But you see what I mean if you had worn such clothes it would have been even harder to appeal
But the fact that you did gives ground to the assessor not assessing you correct

One thing I have found that tribunal like is wording like this backed up with the letters and also it's something to say when they ask if you have anything to say

My consultant agrees that I have xxx condition
My doctor agreed I have xxx condition
While I appreciate ESA is a different benefit to PIP the report agrees that I have xxxx condition
My city council agree that I'm disabled hence my blue badge ( if you have one ) & photocopy it or bring it along to show .

The only people that don't agree is the PIP assessor ( surprise )
In fact everything that is favourable to me has been ignored

I've used these exact word twice for my family member for tribunal and friends have used a variation of it and all have one appeals
.

Lollipop
Def take your mum
Make it clear she is there as your witness and when you get home get your mum or yourself to write out exactly what happened
Make it clear that your mum is accompanying you because you couldn't do it on your own I'd that's the case

As soon as you get home leave it one day or two then ring up the DWP and ask for a copy of the medical report .

This is very important as if you need to do a mandatory appeal ( MR) you only have 4 weeks in which to do it from when you get your decision on the award so having the report before you get the decision means you have extra time to read it through make notes and get ready to appeal for MR if you need to otherwise when you get refused and then apply for he medical report you might only have two weeks to get t all in this way you will have at least 4 weeks maybe 6 weeks or more
It should arrive within a week but if it's not chase them up till it arrives
Hope that makes sense

That should say won appeals

My advice, having succeeded at tribunal for ESA:

Educate yourself and your medical team about the points criteria. That is the only thing that matters in law, and so that what the assessors, decision makers and tribunal people need to hear about.

The points criteria for ESA and PIP can be found online - they'd don't tell you what they are, you have to go looking. Medical support letters need to mention these points exactly, and you must no the do anything that indicates otherwise in your way to or from the assessment.

Fill in every for no with those points criteria in front of you, and be very very specific so that there isn't no wriggle room. Ask your medical people to write with respect to specific points criteria that the Decision maker may try to dodge.

I was given 6 points and should have had 18 according to the tribunal. I had loads of evidence of disability from about six medics, none of which had any impact at all.

The decision maker randomly decided I could self propel in an imaginary wheelchair that was never mentioned and no one had ever suggested would be a good idea, so zero mobilising points. It took me six months to rectify that idiotic presumption. In the same decision, the six points they did give me were for severe pain on sitting, so how a wheelchair was supposed to help I don't know. Nor did the judge.

From another thread

HelenaDove Fri 12-May-17 16:39:00
DHS PIP appointment letter has finally arrived. Its too far away He is unable to travel.

We have asked for a home assessment. The person we spoke to seemed co operative. And they have put in a request for one.

DH did have a home assessment in 1995 because he has always had bad arthritis but this was before the ischemic heart disease and COPD.

The assessor treated our home with utter disrespect He played the buffoon card!

He did an anal exam on DH in the bedroom He dumped his case on my dressing table sending my stuff flying and managed to get KY Jelly all over the dressing table all up the dressing table mirror and loads on the bedspread.

DH really needs a home assessment but we arent prepared to put up with that again.

His massive heart attack was in the spring of 2006 Hes been on low rate care since late summer 2006. And on high rate mobility since late 2008

Another thing to be aware of is that many doctors are no longer willing to give any reports unless the DWP ask for them, but the DWP consider pulling together the medical evidence as your job.

The surgery we're at don't do letters or reports for ESA or PIP purposes even if you pay them because, in their words, it's a complete waste of the GP's time as they just disregard them.

So the only time my DD can have GP evidence (her consultant is better and more understanding) is when the tribunal people asked for it.

If your GP is the same make sure you put it on your form numerous times "GP has a policy that due to time constraints they will only provide written medical evidence to DWP directly upon request" so that when they say "X provided no medical evidence from their GP" you can tell them that they knew they would have to ask for it and the tribunal judge can reprimand the DWP rep for them not doing so.

An assessor once brought his magic stairs to us too.

HelenaDove Fri 12-May-17 19:28:38
Just remembered something else. Sorry for drip feed but it was 22 years ago.

We did take it to tribunal back in 1995. Afterwards when we received the paperwork it clearly stated that DH manages to go upstairs to use the toilet. WE LIVE IN A FLAT.

Lying on the paperwork is NOT a post 2010 thing

I think it entirely depends on who sees you and your claim tbh. I sent in a ton of medical reports for ds and his current GP wrote in support as well. Ds is 22 they used as evidence a letter 19 years old from a GP (I had pressed a formal complaint against because he wouldn't refer to a paediatrician) who had written that he didn't believe that ds had autism (paediatrician had supported my complaint against GP because it worried him just how bad things would need to be to get the GP to make a referral)
DWP obviously disregarded all the current reports from paediatrician, psychologist, SALT, OT and current GP and must have done some impressive digging through his old DLA claim to find that one letter.
To be fair the assessor made a pretty fair assessment of ds but the decision maker ignored his recommendations for some reason Decision was overturned at MR though probably because they would have looked seriously incompetent if it went to Tribunal I imagine.

With regards to doctors what my family , friends have done is the following
When you know your due an Assement / or your applying or appealing

Visit your doctor as normal with regards to your disability

Afterwards ring up and ask for your doctor to give you a letter outlining your disability
It's actually better if you write it and say that your require a letter with regards to your recent visit outling your problems and that you use wheelchair , crutches. Blah blah
You may have to pay for it but it's worth it long term as if you get to the appeal date you might have two or three letters like this over a period of 1 year that all show that your illness is current and hasent changed

This is useful if you have mobility problems and attend in a wheelchair or you need to have someone with you to go to appointment t as this will be on the letter that your accompanied

Use this letter as proof of evidence of how your illness affect your mobility
Something like
Maggie attended doctors on xxx. Date she was in a wheelchair accompanied by xxxx
Maggie has severe mobility problems and takes.xxxxx drugs
Doctor
I will say though that our doctors are fabulous and nothing is to much trouble

Ok, what I think is maybe it helps to regard the tribunals service (appeals) as the real decision makers and DWP / Atos as a kind of muddle in the middle. It helps get it in perspective. Appeals seem to start afresh anyway so don;get too bogged down in what they say but just stick to why you meet the award criteria and take it further if they mess you around.

I'm back on my enhanced care PIP now after doing my paper appeal, and ESA SG but it would have been easy to have given up when they kicked me off last year.

It can help to get a welfare agency to help- can anyone comment on who they have found good? I have heard good things about Welfare Rights, but don't have one nearby. I had an odd experience with Mind, the guy seemed very new and inexperienced and started saying things which didn't apply to me, (like the new reduction in ESA for new claims to the WRAG, whereas mine is already in place and shouldn;t be affected) and I found him a bit patronising. He kept trying to get me to attend the appeal despite my MH condition, as well. So maybe they are a bit mixed.

I think they regard general appointment letters more highly that reports written o support your claim, in fact they say something about this at Benefits and Work. I have never got a letter written specifically for the application, but always just sent in letters already written, as it says with PIP (only send letters you already have). I think it seems more impartial in a way.

Everyone should start going to assessments with those hidden spy cam things and then put up online the difference between what the assessor claims you said/did and what you actually said and did. I reckon if there was a groundswell of people doing this - exposing what is going on - there would be very little the government could do in the face of that exposure other than end the PIP system.

If hundreds of people did this and put it up online after the event... What could they do? Maybe the people voting for the political party who has brought in this system, need to see what is being done in their name.

I wonder if Panorama or a similar TV programme would like to have a go at exposing the PIP assessors?

That would be a good idea. I know, if you want to record it, you have task first though or they can stop it. It would be easy to do this at a home visit, you could just set up a camcorder in the kitchen for example or sitting room, on a high shelf pointing into the room.

There was a programme I remember, something about an assessor being rude and going on about a patient being obese...not sure. he was saying that's all that's wrong with her.