to be annoyed that there will be a trousers uniform only at dc's secondary school from next year?

[bigbuttons]

DD ( dc number5) starts secondary in September. All her older sibs have gone/ are at the school. Her 2 older sisters are in years 8 and 10. Up until now the uniform has been, for girls, a blazer, skirt or trousers, white shirt and optional tie.
We got an email this week saying that after extensive consultation( I would like to know with whom because parents were not asked to my knowledge) the uniform for new year 7's would be 'gender neutral'. Both sexes will wear exactly the same uniform i.e new school jumper, no blazer, smart grey or black trousers, no skirts and all to wear a tie. Pupils currently at the school can continue with the current uniform but change of they wish.
There has been 'issue' with girls rolling their skirts up to basically just below their backsides and members of the public/parents have been complaining about this. The new trousers only uniform will help with issues of 'decency' it says.
Year 6 dd is horrified, she has never worn trousers in her life and quite frankly is not a good shape for them anyway, - leggings yes, buttoned trousers, no, although I have never said this to her of course. She is short and stocky, always has been.
I know many women who feel very uncomfortable wearing trousers because they don't like their legs/shape and always wear dresses and skirts.

What this this gender neutral crap?
I support both sexes wearing ties and I liked the blazer so am sad it has gone.

I think the girls should be able to wear skirts and am confused about the whole 'indecent' issue. If a girl wears a short skirt it's surely not her fault if people find it 'indecent'? It feels like very little has progressed for girls since I was at school. So, they now all have to look like boys?

I would be interested to hear people's views on this.

I think it is a good policy IF the styyles of troursers decided upon are sensble ones.

DD wore trousers throughout primary, but wears a skirt at secondary because, of the unattractive school skirt and the unattractive school trousers, the skirt is marginally less appalling.

DS can't wear the school's recommended trousers because in the sizes and proportions sold, he has a choice of 12" too short or 6" too large round the waist.

If the school has a reasonable choice of uniform trouser styles that are OK for a range of body types (or, better, are available in essentially the same style and fabric in slim fit, standard, longer and shorter lengths and plus size - as is the case in e.g. M&S and similar) then it seems to me a sensible policy.

Goatsfeet that's only true if you consider wearing skirts to be essential to be considered feminine.
I don't. I never wear skirts, other than the odd maxi dress in the summer, and don't consider myself less female in anyway. Looking around me, I would guess most women feel the same way.
No one is banning skirts generally ,anyone who feels the need to wear them to express their feminity is free to do so in their own time.

Vulval health? Okay I missed that post.

I haven't worn a skirt since I left school. All is well!

Sounds good to me, save a fortune on tights, mine ladder at least 2 pairs a week each, and a jumper would be so much more comfortable than wearing a blazer all day. Never understood why they're expected to sit in what is basically a coat all day or how it's supposed to enhance their learning.

All this talk of choice... but I wonder how much "choice" peer pressure would allow if a girl wanted to wear a longer length skirt without getting bullied for it?

I hate the shape of my legs, luckily when I was at school during the mid 80s ankle length skirts were equally fashionable as the shorter styles (I still got bullied during PE though). Had I been at school now the short skirt thing would have been a nightmare for me.

"Goatsfeet that's only true if you consider wearing skirts to be essential to be considered feminine"

Nobody has said anything of the sort.

And why get rid of the blazer, they always look smart and have lots of pockets which is useful if you are not carrying your rucksack everywhere

so in order for the uniform to be gender neutral and to prevent boys from taking 'upskirt photos' girls have a choice taken away from them
Only an unneccessary and pointless choice though. They still have the choice of wearing skirts outside of school, where there is no uniform policy.

Uniform in the UK seems to be particularly focused on controlling what girls wear - why is that?

Because, generally speaking, it's the girls who are pushing the uniform by rolling up their skirts to knicker level, slathering on shed loads of make up, wearing jewellery etc. Boys don't tend to do whatever the equivalent would be.

And again - why? My teenagers are in European schools with no uniforms. Girls don't turn up in six inch skirts; they wear jeans and trainers, because they are comfortable and practical.

Why gender neutral means male? Whi decided that male uniform is gender neutral?

sounds a brilliant idea. I wish they'd do that round here where the girls pants are basically on view.

If a girl wears a short skirt it's surely not her fault if people find it 'indecent'?

In the same why that if you go out leaving your front door unlocked, it's not your fault if your house gets burgled!

I'm far more concerned your daughter has 'never worn trousers in her life' and you're cruel enough to suggest she 'doesn't have the shape for them'. And that you believe trousers make girls 'look like boys' like you're some weird fucking relic from the 18th century.

Bertrand I believe that is the inference from that post. There's plenty of evidence to suggest that a 'no skirts' policy is beneficial and practical in a secondary school , and little evidence to the contrary.

C8H it's not a matter of giving a 'message'. It's a matter of living in the real world,the way it is, not the way we want it to be.

And it will never change when instead of challenging the status quo we support it and collude with it. What sort of consent education does the school provide and how do they address sexual and sexist harassment between pupils?
The exact same arguments are used everywhere to justify controlling women's lives and bodies in order to accommodate male bad behaviour instead of addressing the root of the problem.

I think loads of people are stretching the truth on here

While walking round town and visiting the school i have never seen a girls knickers

Have no doubt that if a girl is sat on the floor you might catch a glimpse but seeing girls walking to school? No

I'm far more concerned your daughter has 'never worn trousers in her life

Thats a weird thing to be concerned about

I want my daughters to feel comfortable with their bodies, I want them to have a choice

They do have a choice - they can wear teeny little skirts outside of school if they want. But if they attend a school with a uniform policy, then they have to wear that uniform. I don't see how being told to wear trousers is making them uncomfortable with their bodies

I don't agree with a trousers only policy.

When DD was aged about 11-13 she was fat. Make no bones about it, I did my best, the rest of the family were slim, ate healthily, exercised blah blah - Despite years of best efforts she over ate, wouldn't do anything and snacked whenever she could and didn't touch veg until 14.

She couldn't get trousers to fit and looked awful in them. At least with a skirt with a wider waistband hid some of heaviness, so she felt less conscious.

Eventually she came to her own conclusion about her weight and lost it at 15 through hard work and running, but I would hate any child to feel uncomfortable like she did.

I'd hate it. Much more comfortable wearing skirts.
The school has a problem if it can't enforce its own regulations regarding skirt length.

C8H well of course, the 2 things should happen simaltaneously. They're not mutually exclusive.
In the meantime, just try imagining a world where boys and men wear skirts over their underpants, so that anyone can aim a phone or camera and take a photo without their knowledge and post it on the internet. What do you think would happen?
I think boys would stop wearing skirts pretty quickly, and jump straight back into their trousers. Common sense really

Trousers are "male norm" skirts are 'female norm

How ironic. This was exactly the argument used by my old head as to why it was 'disgusting' to allow girls to wear trousers. In fact, we weren't even allowed to wear shorts when playing sport. It was fucking freezing and having an adolescence of boys judging your legs didn't exactly empower me either.

I have worn trousers mostly whenever I can. I have had no problems with 'vulval' health and no one thinks I'm a man. In fact, male and female trousers are cut entirely differently.

She couldn't get trousers to fit and looked awful in them

What about boys who are over-weight? Or is it not important for them to look good at all times?

fedupoftax how do you think fat boys cope then?

Our local school did this many years ago. They also ditched the white/blue shirt (messy, see-through, usually worn dangling out intentionally and unintentionally) and ties for school polos and sweatshirts.

It may not be the currently desirable private school look, but it has worked pretty well and everyone looked instantly tidier and it has probably saved many hours of wasted time measuring skirts etc.

Bizarrely the local primary has recently gone over to cheap Tesco logoed jumpers with ties on elastic 'to prepare them for High School'