to be annoyed that there will be a trousers uniform only at dc's secondary school from next year?

[bigbuttons]

DD ( dc number5) starts secondary in September. All her older sibs have gone/ are at the school. Her 2 older sisters are in years 8 and 10. Up until now the uniform has been, for girls, a blazer, skirt or trousers, white shirt and optional tie.
We got an email this week saying that after extensive consultation( I would like to know with whom because parents were not asked to my knowledge) the uniform for new year 7's would be 'gender neutral'. Both sexes will wear exactly the same uniform i.e new school jumper, no blazer, smart grey or black trousers, no skirts and all to wear a tie. Pupils currently at the school can continue with the current uniform but change of they wish.
There has been 'issue' with girls rolling their skirts up to basically just below their backsides and members of the public/parents have been complaining about this. The new trousers only uniform will help with issues of 'decency' it says.
Year 6 dd is horrified, she has never worn trousers in her life and quite frankly is not a good shape for them anyway, - leggings yes, buttoned trousers, no, although I have never said this to her of course. She is short and stocky, always has been.
I know many women who feel very uncomfortable wearing trousers because they don't like their legs/shape and always wear dresses and skirts.

What this this gender neutral crap?
I support both sexes wearing ties and I liked the blazer so am sad it has gone.

I think the girls should be able to wear skirts and am confused about the whole 'indecent' issue. If a girl wears a short skirt it's surely not her fault if people find it 'indecent'? It feels like very little has progressed for girls since I was at school. So, they now all have to look like boys?

I would be interested to hear people's views on this.

As a teacher, I wish this rule was applied where I teach! There are several year 8/9 girls who wear their skirts so short that you can see their knickers as they walk along the corridor, and plenty more girls whose skirts are almost as short. Male staff have been instructed not to comment on girls' skirt length, but even as a female I've had girls accusing me of "slut shaming" when I tell them to roll down their skirts.

know many women who feel very uncomfortable wearing trousers because they don't like their legs/shape and always wear dresses and skirts

OP stated above.
surely unless full length, skirts and dressses show off legs? In more detail than trousers?....
Are you assuming uniform trousers would be skin tight OP?

"Why is it 'indecent?" Because showing your knickers in public is generally indecent, would you show yours walking down the street?

But schoolgirls are forced to expose themselves + their knickers to any males who might want to photograph under their skirts. And always limit their movements to avoid the knickers being seen by anyone.

And then there's much ado made about them rolling their skirts up some centimetres more, to show off their legs and knickers in a way they choose. Because heaven forbid a girl make a choice, however insignificant.

That very nicely shows how sexist it all is. Good that the teachers got fed up with being the uniform police.

here's a venn diagram for the hard of understanding

I think it's a good idea in principle, but this gender neutral bollocks being shoe horned into everything is making me want to spit, quite frankly.
Trousers aren't gender neutral anyway, how could they be?

Daisy I think the appropiate word there is 'traditionally'. There's quite a lot of baggage associated with that tradition.
There's no need to have gendered clothing in a school in 2017. Therefore you come down on the side of everyone wears skirts, or everyone wears trousers. I think trousers are going to win out,especially as most women and girls already wear trousers as part of their daily lives (leaving out social occassions).
Trousers are already the most popular choice, for virtually all males and a majority of females, so trousers is the most obvious choice.

But that's not the point. Trousers are "male norm" skirts are 'female norm" This decision is forcing girls to conform the male norm

The 1950's called and wanted its opinions back.

Trousers are the norm for everyone, and the dichotomy you describe is long dead. It's nonsense.

I don't agree with forcing everyone to wear trousers, but stating its unfair to make girls wear male norm trousers is just ridiculous.

"BTW, trousers haven't always been the norm for men, and other countries don't restrict this today. It's just a western, current day thing, which will change."

Well, in other countries not, I agree with you. But we are talking about this country- I presume England. Where a trouser equivalent for men and a skirt equivalent for women has been the norm a very very long time indeed!

Regardless of what they're wearing, school uniforms are horrible. I think the focus on appearance is damaging to the kids and encourages them to try to separate themselves as individuals by rolling their skirts up etc.

The only rule at my child's school (not in britain) is that they wear clothing that is weather appropriate and comfortable to run around and play sports in. That's it. It schools kids from 4 (although many don't start til 6) to 13/14, I've never seen an older girl there in anything remotely uncomfortable or teenage attempts at 'sexy'. That's for the kids in the uniformed schools where the emphasis is image over function and comfort.

It's not unfair at all to introduce trousers for everyone. Claiming they're doing it to make the uniform gender neutral is unnecessary nonsense.

When i was at my second secondary school (I changed in year 9) our uniform was black trousers, white shirt, tie and jumper, no skirts. up until then I had always worn skirts, it took a few weeks to get used to but it was fine and a lot less time was taken up with people having to be spoken to about skirt length, also looked a lot better than the laddered tights and skirt being hoiked up by your bag look that had been popular at my first secondary.

"The 1950's called and wanted its opinions back. "

Sorry you don't understand. Not sure I could explain it any more clearly. Hey ho.

I think its a good idea but like others I wish they hadn't jumped on the gender neutral bandwagon.
I am also seriously about the whole 'indecency' thing

This is so much better than the girls must wear skirts crap that I had to put up with at school. Skirts are restricting and distracting for the wearer.

I can't abide pretentious strict uniform rules. Keeping it simple and practical is a far better idea.

the uniform for new year 7's would be 'gender neutral'. Both sexes will wear exactly the same uniform i.e new school jumper, no blazer, smart grey or black trousers, no skirts and all to wear a tie

This is not gender neutral: it is conforming to a pattern of stereotypical male business dress.

I so prefer wearing skirts - my legs feel freer and frankly for vulval health, it can be better. And if it's a response to girls rolling their skirts short - well, trousers actually reveal the whole shape of the bottom/buttocks, don't they?

Thinking about it, for me there's a tiny tiny feeling of my buttocks being a bit exposed in snug fitting trousers with a short jacket or jumper on top.

What is wrong with young people wearing skirts?

Anyway, a TRULY "gender neutral" uniform would be free for all - boys & girls could wear either skirts of trousers, or both (maybe not at the same time )

Also, going from previous threads, 'up skirt' photographs appear to be a thing at some schools now (not surprised). I wouldn't allow my daughter to wear skirts at school anyway. I just don't think they belong there , unless they are worn over very thick tights, equivalent to leggings

I understand the concern but is telling our daughters and sons that girls must keep covered up because boys cannot be expected to behave like decent human beings really a good message to give to either sex?
Why is the boys' behaviour and general issues of privacy and consent not the focus of action?

What the bloody hell does that mean anyway? That we all dress like boys?

What it shows is that male/masculine is what is considered the 'norm' or 'neutral.' Which means it's not 'gender neutral' actually.

The joys of life under the patriarchy

I don't understand the thing about not being shaped for trousers

if they are not tight they are not showing the shape of thighs anyway.

I can see why people might feel a choice has been removed though.

I think it's great that they don't have to wear jacket and tie either.

According to current cultural norms, trousers are undeniably unisex (or gender neutral, if you prefer), whereas skirts and dresses are not. It is entirely unremarkable to see girls and women in trousers, whereas a boy/man in a skirt would raise eyebrows. I see absolutely nothing wrong with boys wearing skirts if they choose, but realistically in the UK in 2017 skirts/dresses would not be a unisex option for school uniform. If that is the goal of the school (complete uniformity of dress for all pupils), then trousers are the obvious choice.

"This is so much better than the girls must wear skirts crap that I had to put up with at school. Skirts are restricting and distracting for the wearer. "

yes and the eczema from tights - still have the marks, argh. I fecking hated wearing a skirt.

C8H it's not a matter of giving a 'message'. It's a matter of living in the real world,the way it is, not the way we want it to be.
Goatsfeet I've worn trousers most of my adult life, never had a problem with my 'vulval health'. The mind boggles, quite frankly.Trousers don't have to be that tight, and a longer looser top (a blazer, eg, though I'm not a fan, tbh) can be worn.

My dd would hate to have to wear trousers, her school wears a kilt and knee socks and most of them love it. Trousers are optional. I don't think anything about school should be gender neutral tbh

So in order for the uniform to be gender neutral and to prevent boys taking "upskirt photographs" girls have a choice taken away from them. ''Teas ever thus.

If you consider the shape of the bodies, it seems more logical for women to wear trousers and men to wear shirts - since they need more room down below.

I think your Dd needs to get over her 'horror'. I can't see the problem especially if some girls are walking around with their behind on show.

Skirts not shirts!