to be annoyed that there will be a trousers uniform only at dc's secondary school from next year?

[bigbuttons]

DD ( dc number5) starts secondary in September. All her older sibs have gone/ are at the school. Her 2 older sisters are in years 8 and 10. Up until now the uniform has been, for girls, a blazer, skirt or trousers, white shirt and optional tie.
We got an email this week saying that after extensive consultation( I would like to know with whom because parents were not asked to my knowledge) the uniform for new year 7's would be 'gender neutral'. Both sexes will wear exactly the same uniform i.e new school jumper, no blazer, smart grey or black trousers, no skirts and all to wear a tie. Pupils currently at the school can continue with the current uniform but change of they wish.
There has been 'issue' with girls rolling their skirts up to basically just below their backsides and members of the public/parents have been complaining about this. The new trousers only uniform will help with issues of 'decency' it says.
Year 6 dd is horrified, she has never worn trousers in her life and quite frankly is not a good shape for them anyway, - leggings yes, buttoned trousers, no, although I have never said this to her of course. She is short and stocky, always has been.
I know many women who feel very uncomfortable wearing trousers because they don't like their legs/shape and always wear dresses and skirts.

What this this gender neutral crap?
I support both sexes wearing ties and I liked the blazer so am sad it has gone.

I think the girls should be able to wear skirts and am confused about the whole 'indecent' issue. If a girl wears a short skirt it's surely not her fault if people find it 'indecent'? It feels like very little has progressed for girls since I was at school. So, they now all have to look like boys?

I would be interested to hear people's views on this.

Yes uniform. A uniform is someting you adhere to/accept as part of the establishment you agree to be in. If you choose to join a school with a uniform then you choose to accept it. Exceptions being that iniform being overtly sexual or degrading.

You and your children view uniform as important. You have said they would choose between equal schools based on the uniform. I didnt say that you did.

I listen to my children. I just don't accept their its a cool uniform as an argument when choosing their education.

I cannot give my children much Room I have enough for the basics so I put less value in fashion and looking good simply because I cannot afford that lifestyle and I cannot afford for my children to need that to feel good about themselves.

Trousers are not 'much more practical than a skirt'.

I posted after I said I wouldn't.
I realise that makes me look like a dick

Sorry its a serious personality flaw....I bite

FlossyMooToo nobody has suggested that you should or shouldn't do anything so I don't really see the relevance of what you can or can't afford. You are the one with the opinions on what teenagers and their parents should or shouldn't do and you are the one criticising people's parenting skills. I have repeatedly stated that I would only let them consider not going to a school if they hated the uniform if there was another equally good school they could go to so I don't quite see why that would be indulging them or allowing them to choose appearance over education or how this would cause them to become spoilt brats.

In all honesty I will read it later....too wordy

"I posted after I said I wouldn't.
I realise that makes me look like a dick blush"
No. That doesn't mKe you look like
I posted after I said I wouldn't.
I realise that makes me look like a dick blush"
No- that doesn't make you look like a dick . What makes you look like a dick is the way you continually misquote and misrepresent other people's posts.

TreacleSoda "Mind you, none of the secondary schools in my area allow girls to wear trousers which also has me hmm"

If these are co-Ed schools that allow boys to wear trousers it is not legal to stop girls wearing trousers too. Under sex discrimination legislation. Parents and girls could fight it and win very easily.

No Bert that last post makes you look like a dick. You just could not let me be could you? You just needed to have another dig. Seriously your obsession with me is getting creepy now

To answer the OP, my children's secondary school is trousers only - I think it's a great idea. The only one who minds is dc3 who is due to start in September as she prefers skirts to trousers, but she seems to have got over it.

Once saw a beautiful girl coming home from another school - all done up and skirt as short as possible - natural and she is doing it for herself and her peers. I just don't want older men on the street objectifying my daughters before they are even able to comprehend what that is, and how to deal with it.

Not saying that all men do this, or that skirts necessarily lead to this happening. Or that girls in trousers won't be objectified. However I like the simplicity and ease of trousers only, and the fact that IMO it circumvents the whole short skirt on the way to and from school thing. One of my dds has always only ever worn trousers and would be horrified at the prospect. The other, at 11, is already very aware of looks / make up (not that she wears any) etc.... So I am quite glad about the trousers rule.

I will now be shot down in flames I know.

flossy Bert is right though. Clearly you are not ale to get enough distance from yourself to see that. There's more than one poster saying the same thing to you.

It has been useful getting people's thoughts and ideas.
Seems that those who like wearing trousers themselves are pro all trouser wearing and those who prefer skirts themselves are anti the idea.

If parents had bought uniform items within the rules (skirts that come to the knee, or whatever the rule was before) this wouldn't be happening. It is ridiculous to blame the school. Take some responsibility.

Big around 30 plus posters have told you the same thing too.. and?

Why do you think yours or Berts opinion matter to me, do you see yourself as so important? I dont know you and you do not have any influence in my life. I aporeciate you think you do. Sorry to burst you self important bubble.

You are frothing (i know you love that word) because school have have changed the uniform to trousers....get a grip
They are not asking her to wear a bikini ffs.

If these are co-Ed schools that allow boys to wear trousers it is not legal to stop girls wearing trousers too. Under sex discrimination legislation. Parents and girls could fight it and win very easily.

I don't know if it is different here, I'm in N Ireland, but I was looking up the department of education guidelines yesterday, in light of this thread, and it says on their website that there are no laws regarding school uniform, just guidelines. I know there have been court cases here before that have failed (although the one that I'm thinking of related to a boy saying he had been discriminated against for not being allowed to have long hair).

The difference is I am not banging on about how people are picking on me and flouncing off threads.
You seem far more emotionally agitated than any other poster on this thread which is quite at odds with your protestations that this is only an internet forum and you don't care.

I clearly have not flounced. Still here. At what point have I said people are picking on me?

Given the nasty things you and a few others have said to me do you really think you have covered yourself in glory?
A poster even pointed out earlier how youand Nation were being childish calling me names.

You want me to be bothered. For some reason you appear to be happy at the thought of upsetting me and making me feel bad. Why? What sick kick do you get from needing to go on and on digging at someone until they crack? That is your goal isnt it to upset me. Its clear from your posts.
Thats pretty sick Big and you need to take a long hard look at yourself.

Um, I think you're too over invested.

And?

Apologies, TreacleSoda I didn't take into account NI or Scottish law.

I read this:

www.equalityni.org/Individuals/I-have-a-problem-with-an-education-service/Gender-Sex.aspx
And this, which I expect is the link you found too.
www.oreillystewart.com/access-our-knowledge/education/school-uniform-–-new-circular-201104

The commentary by the lawyer does seem to suggest that when setting uniform policy a school has to be mindful of the context of wider legislation. There is, as he points out, case law in England, but by settling and changing their policy before they got to court that grammar school stopped it being established as case law. They clearly thought they would lose in court and settled.

So, I would say, for a determined group of parents and girls, across a few schools at the same time, the chances of a win would be high!

Soul yes, I'd be interested to see what would happen if the trousers issue made it to court.

Although, perhaps ironically, in N Ireland I don't think a school could ever implement a 'no skirts for girls' uniform policy as mentioned in the OP as there are a lot of women here who do not wear trousers for religious reasons. I know that when I was at school there were at least 20 or so girls in my years whose parents would probably have withdrawn them from school if they were made to wear trousers.

Out of curiosity / my own ignorance, what are the religious reasons for not wearing trousers? I am familiar with the opposite, but not this.

My understanding is that wearing trousers is seen as 'dressing as a man'. Apparently there is a verse in the bible that forbids dressing as a member of the opposite sex (although I can't remember which verse it is) and they adhere to it strictly. I went to a school with a lot of girls from backgrounds like this. They weren't allowed to wear trousers, cut their hair, wear makeup or wear sandals.

On choice, again:

DD has a choice of exactly two lower garments in school uniform - a single colour and style of skirt, and a single colour and style of trousers.

A school uniform policy that allowed only trousers, but in a reasonable range of styles to meet the requirement of different body shapes, would dramatically increase the amount of choice that she has.

If the school has previously allowed a very wide range of skirt and trouser styles, then taking skirts out of the equation DOES reduce choice. Or if it was 1 skirt + 1 trouser style, and they remove the skirt option, but trousers can only be a single sstyle, then yes, choice is reduced from 2 to 1 (1 is exactly the amount of choice boys have - DS must have the only school trouser style. the fact it isn't available in his size is not considered an excuse)

However if they have the type of restricted policy DD's school does, a flexible but trouser only policy would increase choice, and also increase the chance that a child with non-standard proportions could buy garments that fit.

If parents had bought uniform items within the rules (skirts that come to the knee, or whatever the rule was before) this wouldn't be happening. It is ridiculous to blame the school. Take some responsibility.

Pretty much this. Where parents and children take the mick when they have flexibility, they shouldn't be surprised when the uniform becomes highly prescriptive.

A former school of mine had issues with tiny jersey skirts, black trainer style shoes, outdoor coats that were more hoody than coat, kids trying to wear dark sports tops instead of the jumper etc. Now their uniform is single supplier issue (massively increasing the prices because before you could buy any skirt, shirt etc)

My current school people follow the uniform (letter and spirit) and as a result we don't have to prescribe where they get everything from. Much better for everyone

I agree. Anyone saying 'girls of particular weights / figure types would look better in skirts' should look at the school-prescribed one DD has to wear - and the alternative trousers.

NOBODY could look good in either.

Prescribing 'Black formal trousers' would instantly give them all a hugely greater range of much more wearable and flattering garments.

cantkeepawayforever
The problem is that in some schools parents have proven that they are seemingly incapable of making sensible purchases for uniform.

So request for black formal trousers will just lead to more threads like we see saying "Eeee when I bought these from the school section/office section so they school must let my child wear these very skin tight non formal trousers because I gave into pester power and haven't a brain cells to consider that they have been marketed a certain way to make money. it never crossed my mind that just because a shop says 'school' that it will comply with our uniform. But DC wanted them so we bought them and now I'm furious that she's been told off and school want us to but uniform appropriate attire. How dare they?!"