to be annoyed that there will be a trousers uniform only at dc's secondary school from next year?

[bigbuttons]

DD ( dc number5) starts secondary in September. All her older sibs have gone/ are at the school. Her 2 older sisters are in years 8 and 10. Up until now the uniform has been, for girls, a blazer, skirt or trousers, white shirt and optional tie.
We got an email this week saying that after extensive consultation( I would like to know with whom because parents were not asked to my knowledge) the uniform for new year 7's would be 'gender neutral'. Both sexes will wear exactly the same uniform i.e new school jumper, no blazer, smart grey or black trousers, no skirts and all to wear a tie. Pupils currently at the school can continue with the current uniform but change of they wish.
There has been 'issue' with girls rolling their skirts up to basically just below their backsides and members of the public/parents have been complaining about this. The new trousers only uniform will help with issues of 'decency' it says.
Year 6 dd is horrified, she has never worn trousers in her life and quite frankly is not a good shape for them anyway, - leggings yes, buttoned trousers, no, although I have never said this to her of course. She is short and stocky, always has been.
I know many women who feel very uncomfortable wearing trousers because they don't like their legs/shape and always wear dresses and skirts.

What this this gender neutral crap?
I support both sexes wearing ties and I liked the blazer so am sad it has gone.

I think the girls should be able to wear skirts and am confused about the whole 'indecent' issue. If a girl wears a short skirt it's surely not her fault if people find it 'indecent'? It feels like very little has progressed for girls since I was at school. So, they now all have to look like boys?

I would be interested to hear people's views on this.

Nobody mentioned 'throwing a strop,' though. Just expressing a preference.

How is roomster putting a skirt above her childs education

I read her post as

If all the schools were good education wise i would let her pick

This is what I said Surely if there is an eating disorder problem at the school then there is even more reason to give girls as much choice as possible in what they wear

This is what you appear to think I said here wear a skirt that will solve your anorexia

I dont look at school uniforms. I look at what kind of education my DC will be provided with.

Do (or did) your children not get any say in what school they went to? Where I live, most parents to at least take their children's views into consideration.

I wouldn't define someone as a "spoilt brat" just because they didn't want to look ridiculous for the next few years whether they are a child or adult. Education is important to me but so are my children's self-esteem so if there was another good school nearby with a more reasonable uniform I would let them go there if they wanted to. As for the majority of school having a similar uniform, I don't know any with a similar policy to OPs.

If all the schools were good education wise i would let her pick

Yes, that is the norm where I live but obviously not in Flossy's or Empire's world....

I agree with op , there should be a choice, otherwise it is the opposite of feminism

Well, no, the point of a uniform is that everyone looks the same and can focus on their education. It's not a choice. If you want a completely free choice of clothing, do home education.

I think trousers are a great idea. The amount of bumcheeks I had to see walking up stairs when I went to school! There was peer pressure and if anyone had a skirt lower than mid-thigh, you were laughed at and resigned to the "unpopular" group. It was horrible. I wish we'd had trousers only.

There were loads of girls at school with me who weren't allowed to wear trousers for religious reasons. I don't see how a strict no skirts uniform policy can be inclusive to all.

Mind you, none of the secondary schools in my area allow girls to wear trousers which also has me

Just to clarify, I did not say eating disorders were 'rife', just that there is an issue at the school, much, I imagine, as at most secondary schools up and down the country. I also feel Flossy is twisting things. It goes without saying that putting kids in clothes that make them feel uncomfortable and self-conscious won't help with this. I am really shocked to hear this has been driven by a handful of transgender students, if true. I don't want this to turn into a trans thread, but really, are they the only group that may not be allowed to feel uncomfortable then?? More importantly, how does feeling uncomfortable and self-conscious aid learning? Maybe everyone should wear boiler suits, like in '1984'.

The real problem with all of this is that no organisation, be it a school, a workplace, a political party, is willing to tackle the deeply entrenched ideas our society has about male stereotypes and male behaviour. Otherwise, gender neutral uniform could include a free choice of trousers or skirts instead of being about forcing the girls to change their habits without a thought for whether that helps or hinders them. The school that tackles that hot potato will vastly improve its performance in all sorts of areas imo, be that behaviour, results, subject uptake, etc.

Dione OP, if this rule change is indeed about Transchildren then the HT should have said. Instead of dressing it up as a solution to girls flouting the uniform rules.

Exactly. This is the worst bit of the whole thing. The HT could even have just announced the new uniform, no particular reason given. Not scapegoat the girls. Funny how so many schools resist girls wearing trousers for so long, yet the trans issue makes them sit up and take notice!

Although having said that, maybe this school, by enforcing an identical uniform, is actually attempting to go down the gender-neutral route rather than endorsing the idea of "boy's things" and "girl's things"? They wouldn't be able to say if they didn't agree with trans ideology, it might be the most pragmatic solution.

With that in mind, I'd go long with it, but it should just be black trousers or something, not specific school ones, or a specific style that in reality looks baggy on one person and tight on another. I've never shown my knickers in a skirt, but you can see my knickerline in a lot of smart trousers! Girls need to be able to find trousers that suit their body shape, and this will be an issue for almost every girl in the school if standard trousers are issued, because of the way their body shape changes over that time.

Of the 4 schools my older DC had to choose from the uniform was pretty much the same. Trousers, shirt, blazer and tie. The only difference was colour.
If child A said one school was great but they didnt like the uniform I would question what kind of values i have taught them. If clothes are the important factor to them in choosing a school and education is second then to me thats wrong.

Hacked i copied and pasted what you wrote. I have not twisted anything.

"If clothes are the important factor to them in choosing a school and education is second then to me thats wrong."

You just can't help yourself, can you?

To all the posters who can't be arsed to read my previous comments:
I have never discussed my dd's body shape with her, ever, nor will I ever do so, unless, when a teen she brings the subject up. So no, sorry, my dd does not have body issues. She hates trousers because they feel physically uncomfortable and restrictive, she has tried them on and doesn't like them. It has nothing to do with poor body image as some posters would like to think.
I have said all this at least once though.
I won't be saying it again.

If child A said one school was great but they didnt like the uniform I would question what kind of values i have taught them. If clothes are the important factor to them in choosing a school and education is second then to me thats wrong.

Maybe you are one of those people who doesn't care what they look like then. I personally think it is okay to care about your appearance and to not want to look ridiculous. Therefore if my child thought that more than one school was "great" and all other things were equal I wouldn't have an issue with them choosing not to go to one that had a uniform they really objected to.

FlossyMooToo - I think I'm also a parent at this school, and there are 2 other secondaries less than 10 miles away, and another 4 or 5 within 15 miles. So if the skirts are the be all and end all of the matter there are plenty of other options.

I want to know where all the issues finding trousers are coming from - I was a fat kid at school (size 20 aged 15) and even 20 years ago we didn't struggle finding school trousers that fit.

If child A said one school was great but they didnt like the uniform I would question what kind of values i have taught them.

What? It's nothing to do with values, kids just aren't adults and don't make decisions based on sensible things!

I'm smart and have "good values" but I picked both of my secondary schools partially based on the uniform. At that age there's a lot of peer pressure regarding appearance, nothing to do with parenting.

Am I the only person thinking that trousers are much worse for a young girl with an unexpected bleed? She won't be able to hide it. Because of the cut of skirts (they don't cling to the bottom when standing, they skim), there is more time to realise what that strange sensation is and run to the toilet to deal with the blood before it soaks through to the outer layer.

Skirts are also better at hiding hips. Whether the self-perceived issue is that they're too big or too small, skirts hide it better.

I think it's horrible to take the choice away in that difficult growing up time.

However, the Head said that research has shown that girls who wear trousers at school begin to act more like the boys, so there were concerns about behaviour and discipline.

I'm amazed no-one seems to have picked up on this - "more like boys" meaning actually running around being confident and loud I assume, rather than demurely perched on a bench somewhere?

I'm also a little bemused that trousers are apparently restrictive and unflattering but leggings (skin tight) are somehow not.

Maybe you are one of those people who doesn't care what they look like then. I personally think it is okay to care about your appearance and to not want to look ridiculous

Room what makes you think I dont care about what I look like simply because I put less value on it than you?
I have a public facing roll so i need to look smart and presentable at all times. Not that it matters.

What kind of school uniform is ridiculous? I fail to see how the standard blazer and trousers looks ridiculous. But hey according to you I dont care what I look like so what do I know about clothes

You just can't help yourself, can you?

Sorry Bert I forgot you are the only one allowed an opinion. My mistake.

flossy

Girls school near here used to have straw boaters, the girls looked adorable at 6 but by 16 they were sabotaging thise things anyway they could

Blazers, tie and skirt/trousers always looks very smart to me

leggings aren't restrictive at all. If you find them so perhaps try a different brand or size?

"Sorry Bert I forgot you are the only one allowed an opinion. My mistake."

You are, of course, allowed an opinion. You are not allowed to misrepresent other people's. Which you have consistently done on this thread.

Room what makes you think I dont care about what I look like simply because I put less value on it than you?

It has nothing to do with whether or not you "place less value on it" than me. It is to do with your comment that
"If child A said one school was great but they didnt like the uniform I would question what kind of values i have taught them."

This would imply that you think it is wrong to care about your appearance. Maybe you just think it is wrong for teenagers to care about their appearance but okay for you though.

OP YANBU.

"What pisses me off is that "gender neutral" absolutely always means "what society deems suitable for boys/men" and girls/women have to conform to that."

I agree with this.

you can be gender-neutral all you like but you will never manage to be sex-neutral. and when you attempt it, you will disadvantage someone.

It is humiliating to be forced to wear trousers when you have a big bum. This is particularly true in teen years.
I have a very small waist and big bum and it is difficult to find trousers to fit. They feel awful and clingy and tight on the bum and, let's be honest, this emphasises secondary sexual characteristics, which may not be a look you are longing to embrace when you are 14 and at a mixed school.

Someone else has mentioned "vulval health" and this is true too. Polyester trousers, 5 days a week, likely tight-fitting (see big bum issues) are a recipe for thrush.

Girls and women should be allowed to wear skirts. They serve a purpose that trousers don't and it is a sex-specific purpose. Pretending this is not the case is presenting that girls are all shaped like boys. Some may be (envious!) but many are not, and feel bad enough about it already.

I just dont get how they are any more or less restrictive than trousers unless you are doing the splits or something. Unless you are buying tight trousers? Mine are almost culottes, they arent restrictive at all.