to be annoyed that there will be a trousers uniform only at dc's secondary school from next year?

[bigbuttons]

DD ( dc number5) starts secondary in September. All her older sibs have gone/ are at the school. Her 2 older sisters are in years 8 and 10. Up until now the uniform has been, for girls, a blazer, skirt or trousers, white shirt and optional tie.
We got an email this week saying that after extensive consultation( I would like to know with whom because parents were not asked to my knowledge) the uniform for new year 7's would be 'gender neutral'. Both sexes will wear exactly the same uniform i.e new school jumper, no blazer, smart grey or black trousers, no skirts and all to wear a tie. Pupils currently at the school can continue with the current uniform but change of they wish.
There has been 'issue' with girls rolling their skirts up to basically just below their backsides and members of the public/parents have been complaining about this. The new trousers only uniform will help with issues of 'decency' it says.
Year 6 dd is horrified, she has never worn trousers in her life and quite frankly is not a good shape for them anyway, - leggings yes, buttoned trousers, no, although I have never said this to her of course. She is short and stocky, always has been.
I know many women who feel very uncomfortable wearing trousers because they don't like their legs/shape and always wear dresses and skirts.

What this this gender neutral crap?
I support both sexes wearing ties and I liked the blazer so am sad it has gone.

I think the girls should be able to wear skirts and am confused about the whole 'indecent' issue. If a girl wears a short skirt it's surely not her fault if people find it 'indecent'? It feels like very little has progressed for girls since I was at school. So, they now all have to look like boys?

I would be interested to hear people's views on this.

Thanks Dion i shall make a note

"Ah Flossy, pay no attention. Bert's "inability" to see things is a long standing MN joke."

Nasty.

Debate or don't debate. The poster challenged me but I am not willing to be implicated in any cliquish 'joke' about any poster who states things as they see it without name calling.

Dion addressed her post to me Soul I dont think there was any intention to implicate you

but our society says that skirt or trousers is an acceptable choice for women

Lots of workplaces now insist on trousers for all. It's rapidly becoming the "norm" on the back of H&S legislation if you're in any kind of manual job. Obviously skirts/dresses are still commonplace in offices, schools, etc., but not on the "shop floor" these days.

'On MN' would seem to implicate a group of people beyond Dion. I daresay she didn't mean me specifically, I find the tactic unpleasant in a grown up debate, and am saying, specifically that I am not included in some hinted at group who consider any one poster a joke.

I think it isn't even worth worrying about. Just send your child in trousers and move on... Amen. I think this thread is just a rant about gender neutral whatever that is

Ok Soul. I dont think such clarification was needed as mn has thousands of members and I am sure some do agree with Dion but you have made your stance clear.

I visit our school occasionally and in a year of over 100 girls there are only two or three wearing trousers

Anecdata: At my kids' school, there is a choice of skirt or trousers. In 17 years of living round the corner from it, and after numerous visits, I have never seen a single skirt.

However, the trousers can be any style at all, including skinny jeans (as long as they are black, and replaced when they fade) - maybe that's the key?

I think its a fantastic idea! The secondary school by me the girls skirts are so short, And then they wear long socks with them, It looks totally inappropriate.

Well yes multi

Its absolutely anocdata

It wasnt supposed to be a mic drop quote or proof of anything, just a passing comment

Personally i think its a bit stepford wives

Back in the day the girls in our school wore jumpers and the other school wore cardi's ....you did not want to be mistaken for a girl from the enemy school

Sorry, the 'anecdata' wasn't aimed at you, just an acknowledgment of what I was doing to your anecdote

Oooh yes I completely agree that the style maybe the key there multi

Dd wears very skinny hipster trousers ( not school uniform at all) she looks really comfortable and has thick soled brogue shoes

More anacdata from me

Unfortunately thats the only data i ever have

Oh sorry multi

I am much too sensitive for mumsnet

OP, if this rule change is indeed about Transchildren then the HT should have said. Instead of dressing it up as a solution to girls flouting the uniform rules.

dion

I agree, it feels a bit like playing the blame game

Our school used to do enrichment year 9 ds was told in assembly that it was being canceled due to the childrens bad behavior

Dh spoke to the head and it is being phased out due to lack of resources and the schools desire to keep up with formal lessons

Our school has a disturbing habit of distorting the truth

Pages and pages of posts when if we are honest 95% of the argument really is - people think skirts cover and hide fat.

You can often buy a smaller size skirt and have it just about fit when trousers of the same size wouldn't get past your knees. You can pretend to yourself and others that your weight is acceptable. You can even make it trendy by rolling it up.

The problem is that it is just pretend. Wouldn't it be better if we dealt with the fat rather than the trousers? After all the skirt is fooling no one.

OP how does your daughter look awful in trousers? She's just a child. Does awful really mean fat? If so isn't the fat something you really should be dealing with rather than a silly skirt?

That's disgusting Rufus. I can't believe he told the children it was their fault.

Pages and pages of posts when if we are honest 95% of the argument really is - people think skirts cover and hide fat

I was honest about this as my reason for hating trousers. I know i look terrible regardless but obviously some things are more flattering than others. If your point is that fat women shouldn't bother trying to dress to flatter as much as they can then I think that's a bit cruel.

I know dione

I was furious

Ds was also told in year 7 that if he had 5 unauthorised absences that his parents would have to go to court!!

I am going to give the teacher concerned the benefit of the doubt on that one as they were probably using it as an example of a worst case scenario but ds takes everything literally

I think I would be annoyed at this. It would have been okay if they had said trousers were the uniform when choosing the school but mentioning once children are already committed to going seems unfair. My dd have the choice of trousers and skirts at their school and while they both look very nice in other trousers, the school inform trousers are amazing unflattering for anyone without a "boyish figure" and very few girls wear them. I don't see why schools can't just be more strict about skirt length.

if we are honest 95% of the argument really is - people think skirts cover and hide fat

Well, I don't. I like to have the choice - I wear trousers or skirts as I please. I prefer to do long distance walks in a skirt for example, but wear trousers regularly.

I agree with the OP that this whole "gender neutral" thing is a crock - girls are being required to dress as boys: shirt & tie, for example. And girls' choices are being limited because boys can't behave themselves around female bodies. It's a focus on the way girls dress to solve other problems. Typical sexism ...

Talking to a couple of dd's friend who popped round before they walked to school for some breakfast this morning. Seems girls at dd's school almost no girls past yr7 wear trousers because the regulation ones from school shop are the only ones allowed and they're the same as the boy ones, really tight on a more "female" waistline but really baggy on legs and most girls have to get them shortened. Also really high waisted like "simon cowell pants" Not flattering or comfortable. I know school isn't a fashion show but I wouldn't wear men's suit trousers to work I'd buy slim cut women's ones. If they let the girls at dd's school wear something more like the pic attached from Tesco (so affordable as well) I think they'd be more than willing to ditch the kilts.

It would have been okay if they had said trousers were the uniform when choosing the school but mentioning once children are already committed to going seems unfair.

Things change a lot in 5 years. You can't expect a school to keep things the same for that length of time. Especially something that isn't really "that" important in the big scheme of things.

Also cast iron - my dd is a size 6 at 15 so tiny, as are most of her friends, skirts are preferred by them but it has Nothing to do with covering up their supposed fat!