To contact sons teacher and make her feel as shit as she has made him feel!!

[cherryberrymum]

I'm bloody furious and I'm counting on the Mumsnet massive to make me see perspective here.

Son is doing AS levels. One of his teachers who has been laid back to say the least all year has suddenly realised her entire class are not going to pass!!!!

I have done the subject previously and have been helping him the best I can but after a recent disaster in a class test I sent him to ask her for advice.

He said she sat back in her chair arms behind her head and just said he had written a crap answer and it only deserved 3 out of 20 but she felt generous and gave him 6 out of twenty. 😟

Who the hell is that benefiting???? He is home now feeling crap about the first exam which is next Tuesday! She didn't give him any guidance on how to improve his answer. Just told him to read the question in future. He finished tomo for study leave but I'm so bloody cross!!!

WIBU to contact her tomo morning and tell her she's a Knob! Or should I wait till parents meetings in October (assuming he passes AS levels and gets back to do A Levels)

Hope it's sorted OP.
Love how it's specifically stated by the OP that the dc in question is at AS level. The first few posters then plough in demanding to know the child's age..
He's 3, of course. That's why he's sitting his AS levels

Sorry have only skim read this thread so apologies if somebody has said this, dont wait until October, no way. Phone the teacher as soon as possible, see what she says. If you can, speak to the other parents/kids in the class - see what they say. Also mention to the head of department /Head teacher if the class teacher does not give a satisfactory answer. This is your child's education, and A Levels are really important.

Good luck, and hope he does OK in the exams.

ChocolateWombat
KittyVonCatsington
Thank you

Absolutely true that the vast majority of people are lovely reasonable people who want to resolve issues amicably.

Those that seek to stomp their feet, complain and generally blame someone else are also probably pains in the arses elsewhere in life too.

Always amuses me that telling people to calm down and follow procedure gets a shouting down, when actually what most teachers say on these threads is 'if you approach it this way you are more likely to get a reoslution'. whereas if you storm around shouting me me me people think you're an arse. It's like the 'I want to speak to a manager' person in a shop

OP - Any chance you could post the question so we can see where your son might have gone wrong??

To be fair I cannot claim to have assiduously read the whole thread Kitty Von Catsington. I just responded because I had something to share. Reading it over it occurs to me that I must harbour some bitterness or I would not have expressed myself in that way (or suffered from such poor grammatical construction in the process). I must admit that the department concerned did annoy me too. The head of department was an object lesson in how not to behave with parents (or pupils, or teaching staff, or other departments or ...) and had been so publically rude about children, parents and colleagues alike that I guess I should have seen his insecurity at the time. However I did not when it was my own child suffering at the hands of one of his clones so I do understand the emotional response - I think. But I did behave sensibly though and used the freely available specifications (and my own knowledge of how to navigate an examination board site) as I see you also recommended to the OP, to solve the problem. It was solved. I just wanted her to know it could be solved even in a short time frame. I know now that in the end it was my fault for not noticing that matters were going awry in this subject earlier really so I am perhaps displacing some guilt. Also I try so hard to help pupils develop practical exam technique and put in so much time assessing understanding and their confidence in knowledge (demonstrated by their ability to apply it in new circumstances) that I do feel disappointed when colleagues do not. That, I hasten to add, almost never happens.

I am sorry if I was shrill.

Ok I didn't want to come back until I had something worthwhile to post.

Just to clarify. My son is putting as much effort into his Sociology as he is the other three subjects. He is just struggling with this subject as it is a different style of subject to the other factual ones he is doing.

I spoke with two other parents who have kids in this class. Both expressed disatisfaction with not only feedback but also notes and information in class. We were told there is no specific text book for this exam yet all and I mean all the notes given are photocopies from the same text book.

When I first had issues with this teacher I contacted a colleague who lectures in the subject at Uni and she gave me some basic online resources to use but when he included these in his essay she told him they were not sources she was familiar with and he should omit them.

The feedback on essays up until Christmas was pretty good. The topic was education and he grasped it well and was getting reasonable marks. Since Christmas he has struggled with the topic and instead of helping she is skirting over him and the others who don't get it.

This is becoming clear now after talking to other parents. I have made an appointment with the year head and explained exactly what this is about. Simply because I really don't believe in moaning about something and doing nothing. I have been to see her three times now and nothing has improved.

I completely agree that as a university pupil he will need to be independent and take responsibility for his own learning. However that learning needs guidance not least in the form of acceptable feed back!

Thanks to all those judging my parenting and my sons performance and lack there of. I appelreciate all perspectives and am sure u understand that it is difficult to give all details in such a short post.

Kitty......... I'm not sure what your mean. My son is most definitely sitting a public exam, the results of which are published in August. If he obtains the grades required for re entry to his school he can then register to do A level exams next June. Is this a linear exam? It has never been called that and the forms we signed all said AS level.

I'm sorry I didn't post yesterday. I actually spent most of the day finding questions and answers for him to practice. We have now managed to obtain an official syllabus and collate a full set of notes ourselves. Thankfully he seems to be absorbing it reasonably well now it is laid out in a clear and flowing fashion.

What inconsistencies have I shared. Just remind me so I may respond.

In fairness to OPs son,it isn't always obvious how to answer the question from just reading it

Apologies InfiniteCurve, I'm on Maternity Leave with time on my hands! I'm not a Sociology teacher but was teaching the new Linear A Level Computer Science before I left.

Here is an example of one of the questions:
The Internet has had a major effect on society
Discuss the social and ethical effects on young people of allowing unrestricted access to the Internet

In my class, most were able to discuss both social and ethical effects fine but over half failed to mention 'unrestricted access' or mention 'young people' at all and could only go in the bottom mark band. When pointed out, those students won't "Oh, I missed that!".

Therefore, in a lot of cases, it is good advice to fully read the question as advice on its own!!

Isn't this a good example of when a teacher shouldn't be saying 'read the question fully' instead the student needs to be taught how to read the question...

in this example you would tell them to go through the question word by word and write down the phrases covered:

• Internet
• major effect
• society
• social effects
• ethical effects
• young people
• allowing
• unrestricted access

then tackle each one and tick them off on the list to ensure you have covered it all - it is easy to say read the question, but at this level and above questions are complex with many elements, it is normal to be able to read it and only pick out part of the question - there needs to be a structured understanding of how to tackle the question - and that is a part of the teacher's job - just telling the child read the question is not always the right response

Thank you akkakk!

My point exactly. This is the first time these kids have encountered these questions and so they need to learn the language used and how to interpret the questions. Good feedback is essential for this!!

.

akkakk

I already had. In fact I have a specific lesson for a double (1 hour 20 lesson) on exactly how to underline key words, check marks on offer, plan how many sentences to write and what words to include. The point I was making that it doesn't matter how many times you tell students, they will always forget to do that when completing homework, tests or exams. Reminding them to fully ready the question is perfectly acceptable.

Welcome back cherryberrymum! Any update? Can you answer any of the other posters' questions with regards to your situation?

I think I covered most things. What did I miss?

I agree they need to be told they should read the question. But If as he did they interpret it wrong. Surely the teacher should point out or provide guidance

Questions like:
Is it an AS Level on its own that your DS is studying (and therefore not continuing on it next year) or is it the A Level (which is only formally assessed at the end of next year and a very new course, which would explain why the teacher is having to make up their own questions, rather than being a lazy teacher). Basically, are the upcoming exams you are talking about, internally assessed ones, marked by the teacher only? It may also be useful for you to know, so that you don't practise the wrong past papers with your DS, as he revises or panic that this will affect his final grade.

How do you know the teacher is now panicking that they will fail, especially with those good percentages you listed? Could it not be they were told, 'you will fail unless...'

Did the teacher actually say the word crap or is this what you heard from your DS?

There are a couple more but I'm having trouble scrolling and breastfeeding at the same time!

It just seemed as soon as some teachers posed questions that might help you, you disappeared!

What exam board and specification (syllabus) is it Cherry?

Storm in a teacup.
Teachers give guidance throughout the year. They give it via written comments on individual work, through comments to the class as they return work, through explanations as they are teaching and when they are issuing questions,msometimes verbally individually. It all happens. It simply is not possible for a teacher to go through every individual aspect which needs improvement and explain it individually to each child after every piece of work. Sometimes it is necessary and should be sufficient to say 'read the question' because this refers back to information which has been given about doing this before. It is not the only instruction the student has had. Or it might be that a particular focus on that aspect of answering questions will be coming next or later in the course for the whole class.
So feedback on an individual piece of work is simply not enough to be able to judge whether a teacher is explaining, teaching and helping a child to move forward. It is about so much more which happens over a wide period of time. And sixth formers do needs to remember that and be prepared to jot down advice teachers give whilst teaching, to look back at previous work and the comments on it before starting the next piece, to return to advice sheets given etc. And if they feel that they still don't understand, they need to speak to the teacher and ask for a mutually convenient appointment to discuss the precise issue. Teachers cannot and will not be able to arrange individual feedback with individual students on a 1-2-1 basis after each written piece of work. They will have marked it and provided feedback and given verbal feedback to the class. If further help is needed, a student needs to be pro-active - this is the sixth form after all. So, perhaps the OPs child needs to politely email this teacher and just ask if there is a time they can meet to discuss exactly what reading the question means, because they haven't quite grasped it. The child can say that they were disappointed their essay was so poor and would like to improve.
Of course all of this really only works if the student is actually pushing themselves to do their best with their work - they have used the materials provided to write the piece and looked back at previous work to see what lessons can be learned. If the work is 'crap' because it has been rushed and the above things haven't been done, then really there isn't much point being offended by the whole thing. Teacher input may help but making an effort and doing what is required when producing the work will be the thing which makes most difference. For many students, it is the latter that will really make the difference. The OP will have to judge whether her child is fully pushing themselves and making use of what they already have to make progress or isn't doing this.

Re AS and A Level exams, there seems to be some confusion. This year, there are a few legacy subjects which still have an AS which counts for half of the A Level. These include maths and politics. Others have the option to sit an AS which is a formal exam with results (which few schools actually do now) and that result can be 'cashed in' as simply as AS result if not continuing to AS, but if the student continues into the second year of the course to do the full A Level, the AS result counts for nothing and 100% of the marks come from the exams at the end of the 2 years when both years worth of work will be tested. It's really important for the child and parents to know if this is an external exam (OP says it is) but also if it is an AS which contributes to the overall A Level result. Many schools don't do the AS now because of cost and the fact it doesn't count. Some use it as a way to assess if students are good enough for the full course and if gaining poor results make them cash in an AS and not continue to A level, perhaps meaning they don't complete 3 full A Levels.

I have just checked and Sociology is not a legacy course. So this means that the AS sat this summer, whilst providing an external exam result, won't count towards the A level if the full 2 year course is sat. It will only count if cashed in as AS because the full 2 year course isn't being sat - this will happen if the result is poor. The AS will also be used to predict for UCAs.

My son is most definitely sitting a public exam, the results of which are published in August. If he obtains the grades required for re entry to his school he can then register to do A level exams next June. Is this a linear exam? It has never been called that and the forms we signed all said AS level.

ChocolateWombat is absolutely correct. cherry, if your DS is sitting a public exam this summer, that means he is only sitting the AS Level and not the full A Level at all. Kitty's point is still valid in that the teacher will not have lots of past paper questions to use as this course is only in its second year, therefore, it was a little unfair of you to rant that your DS's teacher was only setting their own questions etc.

If your DS wants to sit the whole A Level, he will have to forfeit this summer's grade completely. He will then sit, from scratch, the Year 13 papers, which will have a generally different syllabus to the AS Level one and the exams will be longer. Just wanted to make sure you knew that. It also sounds like the other parents you have spoken to, quite possibly don't know any of this either.

You do seem to now make it only about the lack of feedback on this one essay but you were throwing an awful lot of accusations in the beginning of this thread....

Ok to clarify.

He is doing four AS levels now. The school he attends will only allow pupils who obtain c and above in all subjects to return and sit A levels. At this point he can either sit all four a levels or sit only three as a level and use the fourth subject as an As level when applying for uni.

The board they are sitting is the Welsh board and yes while this is a new specification I agree there are no specific past papers or marking schemes. However the grammar school in the city next to us are doing the same board exams but teachers have used general questions from previous exams for the kids to test their knowledge (I guess Parsons theories are the same regardless what board you sit)

We had hoped he would do the four a levels as he is bright generally but I think this experience has put him off Sociology and so he may opt not to continue to A level which is a pity as it's interesting and he enjoys the discussions they have in class.

As for the good percentages. I don't think the percentages in the 60's are good.

Sociology is not one of the 'hard' A level subjects favoured by good units. If he's bright and not enjoying it he might consider changing to biology, geography, history... and catching up over the summer.

WJEC is that correct?

I already had. In fact I have a specific lesson for a double (1 hour 20 lesson) on exactly how to underline key words, check marks on offer, plan how many sentences to write and what words to include. The point I was making that it doesn't matter how many times you tell students, they will always forget to do that when completing homework, tests or exams. Reminding them to fully ready the question is perfectly acceptable.

All of that is valid - and it is great that you are doing that - however (and disclaimer, I trained as a teacher / have taught / but am not now teaching) I think that sometimes while it might be logical to tell a teenager to fully read the question (even having taught them how) may not be enough - it might only need a little bit more e.g. " read the question fully - do you remember that lesson when we went through separating out the points and then making sure you cover them..." etc. - when a teenager has a mental block you sometimes have to reinforce what has already been told to them 100 times but anyhow, the good way in which you teach isn't necessarily the same as the way in which this teacher tackles it - and the point I was making was that just saying read the question isn't always enough!

Grade boundaries for Summer 2016 may help you to gauge.

akkakk - but we don't know that the teacher didn't do this. When children and adults report conversations, they only include certain details. We don't know what other things have been referred to earlier on referred back to. And it isn't always possible to refer back to every single thing that has been said previously - it is necessary to think students have some kind of recall because otherwise it would be necessary to repeat every single thing that had ever previously been said in every subsequent conversation - clearly an impossibility.

Yes, good teaching explains things lots of times and refers back to lots of previous references and examples, because students need the message reinforced. I find it simply impossible to be able to judge how much of this happened or didn't happen in this case, because I wasn't there and because we are hearing from Op who is reliant on hearing from son.
Sometimes lots of referring back to previous messages will happen and sometimes it won't. Focus of lessons and of meetings varies. Whilst sometimes a teacher may devote a whole lesson to technique, at another time there may be little reference to it and a focus on content. In a meeting, very brief feedback might be given without detailed explanation because.....it is a very short meeting. Other times lots may be given and more arranged for another time. I simply think it is impossible to make judgments based on one meeting about what 'should' have been done or said. The key thing is if the necessary things are happening across the course - they can't all be happening all of the time.
So I would focus less on this individual meeting and more on the whole course and teaching across the whole course. Has work been set? Has work been marked and feedback given? Is content being covered? Has advice about improvement and what is required been given periodically? Sometimes students struggle to recognise that these things are happening and sometimes parents don't know these things are happening because the format of them isn't quite as they might expect. And to want all of these things in every lesson is simply unrealistic.
That teacher may be planning to spend next lesson covering what 'read the Q' means or actually spent last lesson doing it. We don't know.