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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To expect a French teacher to be able to speak french

277 replies

SandyY2K · 09/05/2017 19:34

Why would a school get a supply teacher to replace the French teacher who can't speak the language?

My DD mentioned that prior to her GCSEs last year, they had some lessons with a supply teacher and he didn't know a thing.

Same thing with my other DD. She's mentioned having a chemistry teacher and a teacher for another subject who didn't know the subject and just handed out worksheets. When anyone asked a question, the teacher said they didn't know the answer.

Would it be unreasonable of me to contact the school about this? Any teachers? What do you think?

OP posts:
fiftyplustwo · 10/05/2017 04:30

Anyway, later in life it's often that you (nowadays) just have to go online and find out for yourself what the answer is, through the aid of various help forums, such as Math Help Forum, Chemistry Help Forum, etc. What you could do yourself is to sit down with your daughters and identify these forums and other sites they would benefit from using now that they can't expect (rather: they'd expect but don't get) it from their teachers. It's very helpful to have somewhere to ask questions.

Headofthehive55 · 10/05/2017 06:05

My DD only started and ended with the same teacher in one subject GCSE - the others she had a multitude of teachers for some a day some longer - the record was nine for biology.
That was six years ago.
It's not just recruit, but retention.
Id happy teach if the kids behaviour was ok.

Trifleorbust · 10/05/2017 06:16

If they could have gotten a French-speaking supply teacher in, don't you think they would have done?

Trifleorbust · 10/05/2017 06:20

Also, the supply teacher sounds a bit informal but how could he have given the students guidance to pick up with their 'real' teacher? He probably had no idea whether there was a real teacher.

notanevilstepmother · 10/05/2017 06:23

We don't have a head of department- yet another vacancy! I'd have swapped myself in but didn't know until later in the day. I was going to mention this to my acting HOD but they are genuinely too busy with all their other roles to turn up to meetings as they are supposed to be in 3 places at once much of the time.

DitchCamille · 10/05/2017 06:25

HelloKitty ring a supply agency in your area and ask them.

MissBax · 10/05/2017 06:38

Supply teachers are often subject neutral and are basically there to make sure the children aren't killing each other. They don't often get teachers of that subject.

honeysucklejasmine · 10/05/2017 07:34

I had to put two bottom set classes together and teach them both at the same time as there was no supply available.

Luckily, as it was a few years ago, I also got two TAs. That wouldn't happen now.

hula008 · 10/05/2017 07:50

In academies they can use unqualified teachers (I guess glorified teaching assistants?)

rollonthesummer · 10/05/2017 08:06

The official line of the Tories is 'teaching remains an attractive profession'

Yep. The DFE usually have a nameless spokesperson who pipes up with, 'recruitment and retention in teaching is at an all time high'. It reminds me of the end of a Carry on film (was it Up the Khyber?) where the house they are in is falling down around their ears and they carry on laughing and drinking and cutting up their dinner!

Where are the actual figures to show how many people train each year, how many of them stay in teaching and how many leave each year? Are there exact records or are they hidden?

It makes me so cross. Then reading posts on here moaning about schools who use teachers who can't speak French or teaching assistants instead of teachers or having teachers off sick, schools sacking all the tas or threatening to go down to a 4.5 day week makes me think some parents still have no idea what it's like.

When teachers decided to strike-all people moaned about was childcare for that day. Now we are in the situation where schools can't get teachers and children are genuinely getting screwed over in their exams years-some people still don't get it.

And they still think the conservatives are a good thing for education...

Original poster
SandyY2K · 10/05/2017 08:36

It's awful that teachers are being placed in these situations and it's no good for the pupils

Totally agree with this. My Dsis teaches in an FE college and was asked to teach a non specialist subject, she read up on it, spent so much time researching it and tried her best for the students. She even got her DD in as a guest speaker, as she did the subject at A level.

Then she was asked to do another subject in a very different area and she refused. She said it was short changing the students and embarrassing to be asked questions she didn't know the answer to.

She said she wasn't going to look like a fool and if they wanted to take any action against her for refusing, they could do so. From the other subject, she felt that on a few occasions the clever students (one imparticular) seemed to ask more questions and she felt it was just to show her up and then appear to snigger about it.

They let it drop and asked another lecturer to do it and she later heard some students in her tutor group complaining about how useless he was.

She and I had discussed this after she was asked to do the first extra subject and because they also come down on you, if your group fails to do well, I advised her what to say should it happen again.

From a HR perspective, I can't see what disciplinary action they could have taken against her, with the valid response she provided.

It's a sad state of affairs. In order to attract people into the profession, they need to make it more financially rewarding. Especially in the London area with the property prices whether you rent or buy.

OP posts:
Candlelightnewf · 10/05/2017 08:39

Yes, you are right to be annoyed. However, this is the state of our education system and it's only getting worse.
People won't listen until it directly affects them.

Tw1nsetAndPearls · 10/05/2017 08:50

But it does directly affect lots of Tory voters and they don't seem to care.

Whilst I am not going to turn down a pay rise - I don't think this is about salaries - it's workload. I am making plans to get out of teaching because I don't want to work the hours I do. In addition I work insane hours knowing that the children have been set up to fail anyway.

Orlantina · 10/05/2017 08:50

She said it was short changing the students and embarrassing to be asked questions she didn't know the answer to

That's just it. How can you be a teacher of a subject where you don't know or even understand the concepts?

You are not being a teacher then. You are just being an adult in the classroom.

jellyfrizz · 10/05/2017 08:56

I don't think this is about salaries - it's workload.

Agree, it wouldn't cost a lot of money to help retention. For me it was workload (all the paperwork that doesn't help the children rather than the actual teaching) - and the emphasis on data rather than individuals.

rollonthesummer · 10/05/2017 09:01

then she was asked to do another subject in a very different area and she refused

For many teachers refusing is not an option. If you were at risk of redundancy, on a temporary contract or dangerously close to the expensive upper pay scale, refusing what management have asked you to do might not be easy.

listsandbudgets · 10/05/2017 09:06

DD had a French teacher who could barely speak French. Unfortunately for her DD has a girl in her class who is half French and speaks it fluently... said child attempted to converse with new teacher and there was a great deal of embarrassment all round. To be fair she was a MFL teacher but in Spanish.

The poor woman left at half term and was swiftly replaced by a French lady who has really bought them on - I think the school was lucky to find her though (I think they found someone else to cover Spanish)

Original poster
SandyY2K · 10/05/2017 09:20

She had to refuse, because it wasn't just covering a lesson for an absent lecturer, she was asked to teach the whole year on the subject from the beginning.

I never forget the HT saying that his experience was that once a NQT had a 2/3 years experience, they were off, many going to teach I'm places like Japan, Korea and the Middle East, where they had a package including accommodation, a driver, 2 trips home and private health care.

For a younger person who has no spouse or children, I can totally see how that's a more attractive option, than paying a third of your salary in rent for a flat share in London.

OP posts:
Original poster
SandyY2K · 10/05/2017 09:28

Unfortunately for her DD has a girl in her class who is half French and speaks it fluently... said child attempted to converse with new teacher and there was a great deal of embarrassment all round.

I can imagine.

My DDs French tutor found some errors in the work her teacher had marked.

She told me that that things the teacher was marking correct were wrong.

OP posts:
Tw1nsetAndPearls · 10/05/2017 10:38

She had to refuse, because it wasn't just covering a lesson for an absent lecturer, she was asked to teach the whole year on the subject from the beginning.

In schools up and down the country teachers are teaching whole GCSE and A level courses outside of their specialism because schools are making staff redundant and if they don't fill their timetable they will face the axe. This is being made worse because options subjects that may traditionally have had smaller classes are being cut and classes are growing - creating "free time " on timetables

needsahalo · 10/05/2017 10:54

My DDs French tutor found some errors in the work her teacher had marked. She told me that that things the teacher was marking correct were wrong

The reality is that many MFL departments demand two languages. Some are lucky in that they have a good split of skills and are able to use staff to the best of their abilities. I teach Spanish but I don't teach it quite so well because I don't know it to the same standard as French. I am fortunate in that my head of department gets it and I only teach lower sets Spanish where the pace is slower and tricky questions are less tricky! It is the same in science - people with chemistry degrees teaching biology, people with biology teaching physics etc. You are very naive to assume that all specialists are genuine specialists - many of us muddle the best we can. It is only going to get worse in languages. We have not been able to recruit this year - best school in the immediate area.

noblegiraffe · 10/05/2017 11:02

Just don't ask who is teaching your kid maths.

monkeysox · 10/05/2017 11:10

Two people applied for my current job (maths) they employed us both.
Hens teeth

Y10Parent · 10/05/2017 11:11

In some of her subjects, DD has given up on the crap teacher, downloaded the specification and taught herself. Fortnately, she has a brilliant MFL teacher as I think even she'd struggle to teach herself French.

The whole ethos and working environment in schools needs to change so that teachers feel valid and respected and can get on with the business of educating. Maybe then, schools wouldn't keep losing staff and more people would consider training.

Tw1nsetAndPearls · 10/05/2017 11:11

Just don't ask who is teaching your kid maths

Totally agree, or who is leading the maths department