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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To expect a French teacher to be able to speak french

277 replies

SandyY2K · 09/05/2017 19:34

Why would a school get a supply teacher to replace the French teacher who can't speak the language?

My DD mentioned that prior to her GCSEs last year, they had some lessons with a supply teacher and he didn't know a thing.

Same thing with my other DD. She's mentioned having a chemistry teacher and a teacher for another subject who didn't know the subject and just handed out worksheets. When anyone asked a question, the teacher said they didn't know the answer.

Would it be unreasonable of me to contact the school about this? Any teachers? What do you think?

OP posts:
DitchCamille · 09/05/2017 20:47

There is a teaching crisis. I'm a supply teacher. My agency beg me to go to schools and do work that I wouldn't necessarily be competent to do. As it's that or nobody at all. I don't do it as there is enough work for me to pick and do exactly what I want to,do.

I've been walking my dog at 9am on my day off and persuaded to go to a school. I arrive at 10.30 and find a poor teacher with 50 reception children desperately eyeing the door.

I was in an assembly on Friday in a two form entry infant school where every single teacher was a supply teacher.

Whileweareonthesubject · 09/05/2017 21:10

Not unreasonable Sandy, no. But given there is a national shortage of both science and NFL teachers, I'm not sure where you think the school is going to find the teachers they need.
DC is a science teacher. When he applied for his pgce, several universities had stopped offering it in his subject. The one where he went, only train 10 in his subject each year. That doesn't even allow for replacement of those teachers who have retired each year, let alone address the shortage that already existed. The pressure on teachers is crazy. The lack of support from many SLTs as well as parents doesn't help. It's no wonder graduates are turning away from the profession and going into other careers where they are appreciated and remunerated appropriately.

Original poster
SandyY2K · 09/05/2017 21:15

Thanks for the replies. I do appreciate the difficulties in recruiting teachers, as I have been on the governing body where staff recruitment was discussed. ...

Maths and science teachers are rare and we had to go to Ireland to recruit.

It's just really frustrating because the French class cover issue was before DCs GCSEs as well.

I'd kind of let it go, but it came up the other day when my other DC mentioned the same thing in 2 subjects. Especially as she'll be the first of many) year 10) to do the new style GCSEs. I did ask if her teacher would explain the topics the supply cover did on her return and apparently not.

It's straight on to the next thing.

So essentially, they'll be tested on topics they've never been taught.

I then suggested that she needed to be proactive and ask if she didn't understand when her proper teacher came back...

If she wasn't in top sets, I'd really be really worried.

I agree that teachers are leaving their jobs, especially in London where the cost of living is high. The school isn't an academy, so they can't pay what they like in order to retain some staff.

I can totally understand why those who can afford it, opt for a private education.

For all the teachers, I commend you. The permanent teachers at DDs school do a very good job and I do feel sorry for all teachers and pupils for the constant mess around with the syllabus for GCSEs.

DDs teachers say they are teaching, but don't know the content of the exams yet.

I dread to think what it's going to be like when my DC have their children.

OP posts:
rollonthesummer · 09/05/2017 21:17

Why would a school get a supply teacher to replace the French teacher who can't speak the language?

Can you really not think of an answer to this question?!

It worries me that some parents clearly have absolutely no idea of what's going on in teaching at the moment!

Original poster
SandyY2K · 09/05/2017 21:23

Notangelina
I'm very fearful for our children's future.

I agree with you.

OP posts:
Orlantina · 09/05/2017 21:38

It's a real shame that our politicians aren't discussing the massive issues with education at the moment.

Recruitment and retention are being ignored.

Tw1nsetAndPearls · 09/05/2017 21:43

This so what happens when a government deliberately targets and demoralises teachers. Eventually you just run out of teachers. The unions tried to warn parents but they didn't listen.

notanevilstepmother · 09/05/2017 21:44

The annoying thing for me is that schools could do more internally to make sure exam groups are covered. We have a year 11 group at the moment who are on teacher number 6 (I think) since year 10. Not their fault, lovely pupils. Their current (correct subject) supply teacher was off so they had a different supply teacher who wasn't a specialist. I am a specialist in that subject, and would have happily swapped my year 8 group for that lesson, the exam is in a few weeks and the year 11s would have benefited, and the year 8s would have been fine as a one off lesson.

TheFallenMadonna · 09/05/2017 21:48

I used to rotate myself around the 2 year 11 classes we had with no Science teacher, plus my own. So I would do one in three lessons with each group. I did it for a term and a half. We had 10 classes timetabled at the same time, plus A level too. Year 7s lost their teachers too.

TheFallenMadonna · 09/05/2017 21:49

Why didn't your HOD swap you in? We definitely would have done it at this time of year!

Original poster
SandyY2K · 09/05/2017 22:06

I taught overseas for years, loved it and felt I was really helping children achieve. I lasted a year and a half in state back in England before I had to leave

You sound exactly like a friend of mine.

She was overseas and hated it back here.

No sooner was she back and she had all the rumblings of Ofsted are due soon and the stress that comes with it.

She left sharpish.

OP posts:
early30smum · 09/05/2017 22:08

It's not okay, but not uncommon and you'd be surprised how many teachers in KS2 'teach' French without being able to speak it properly. Hmm Good MFL teachers are hard to find!

Original poster
SandyY2K · 09/05/2017 22:12

Can you really not think of an answer to this question?!

My point is that they should be clear with the pupils, that the teacher doesn't know the subject and they should pick up on anything they're unsure of when their teacher returns.

Rather than for the students to ask a question and get the responses they did like......

"Your guess is as good as mine" and "I don't know mate".

Not at all professional.

Luckily, I was able to arrange private french tuition and DD said she wouldn't have passed her GCSE without it.

Unfortunately, not everyone is in a position to do that.

OP posts:
crazycatguy · 09/05/2017 22:13

Just to add to the recruitment shortage argument, I teach History (and speak French!).

In 2007, the first job I went for had 59 applicants, 6 of us were shortlisted and I got it. I'm now trying to hire a history teacher. I work in a lovely school and I'm now trying for the second time as we only had two applicants the first time and neither of them were appropriate.

But there's no 'recruitment crisis', we're told.

BelafonteRavenclaw · 09/05/2017 22:14

Probably.

We've lost 2/3 of our German teachers and due to budget cuts we cannot replace them. As a result the remaining staff are filling in based upon our GCSE/A-level qualifications. I haven't spoken German since 1998 but I can well imagine I'll be asked to pitch it. My subject is not MFL btw.

NonnoMum · 09/05/2017 22:22

Recruitment crisis. Funding crisis. Unmanageable workload.
I think the Tories are going to have a shock at this election. Even grandparents round here (Tory safe seat for 30 years) are beginning to realise the problem.
And then throw in the crisis in the NHS... I can't wait for June 8th...

Orlantina · 09/05/2017 22:27

I think the Tories are going to have a shock at this election. Even grandparents round here (Tory safe seat for 30 years) are beginning to realise the problem

Yes....but we need an opposition.

This is what really annoyed me about this election. Tory MPs were beginning to realise what was going on and were tackling Theresa May. She had to back down on stuff.

Now she'll say she has a mandate for new grammar schools etc - where are all the teachers going to come from?

TreeTop7 · 09/05/2017 22:32

I know a music teacher who's also been covering a Y9 maths group. He only has the subject at A Level - and he did not get a high grade - but it's seen as good enough. He hates doing it, especially when the very clever ones ask more complex questions, he feels like a fraud. It's awful that teachers are being placed in these situations and it's no good for the pupils.

BathshebaKnickerStickers · 09/05/2017 22:34

I'm a qualified secondary teacher and I have had to cover French lessons when doing supply. I can barely speak a word of French. I have also had to cover Craft,Design and Technology- also completely out with what I had a clue about.

Schools in my day used to at least employ teachers to do cover. Now they don't even employ teachers.

needsahalo · 09/05/2017 22:36

Recruitment and retention are being ignored

You can't move 10 metres around here without seeing an advert....turn on a radio and you'll here an advert, or see one on the tv. They know there's a crisis, they just don't want to hear.

needsahalo · 09/05/2017 22:37

Bollox. Hear. Here. Blah!

Orlantina · 09/05/2017 22:39

It's awful that teachers are being placed in these situations and it's no good for the pupils

This. How is a pupil supposed to respect the school if they can't even provide teachers that know the subject?

The expectations have massively increased as has the content.

NonnoMum · 09/05/2017 22:39

There is NO evidence that grammar school benefit students. (Although someone will come on here in a minute and say it didn't do them any harm, they were bussed through their peasant neighbours to learn Latin with the well spoken exam-passers)...blah blah blah. But Theresa May is determined to go ahead with it.
And MOST teachers are determined to help students of ALL abilities so if their is a recruitment crisis in ordinary school I don't know here the gown-wearing grammar school teachers are suddenly going to appear from...

Orlantina · 09/05/2017 22:40

Standard DFE response

We have the best teachers in the world.
Schools have record funding.
More pupils are in good or outstanding schools.

Yes but.......

GardeningWithDynamite · 09/05/2017 22:50

I'm wondering whether education is going to move more to the MOOC type of model (I love MOOCs). I know it's not as interactive as having a teacher there in the classroom, but maybe being able to do work at your own pace and submit work online to a specialist would be better than doing worksheets for someone who doesn't know the subject at all? If you can't recruit a proper teacher and you're stuck with supply then you'd at least know the content being taught was correct.