To think this person should be removed from our course?

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Hi,

Had a horrible encounter today at Uni. A small group of us were doing some quiet work in preparation for a presentation we're giving. The three of us were working away quite happily in an empty classroom, when another member of our course came in and joined us (for clarity, I'll call her Patty- not her real name.) Patty was putting other members of our class down and made a comment about some recent results where she got a pass grade, but someone else in the room had had to change a few things to pass that assignment.

One of the other women (Claire, not real name/clarity) made a joking remark along the lines of 'well, some of us got good marks'. Claire seemed to realize her comment wasn't very nice and said sorry straight away. Patty then got up and demanded that Claire join her in the hallway. At this point, Patty was visibly angry and was shouting that she wanted an apology.

I tried to calm things down by pointing out Claire had said sorry, and that everyone needed to calm down. I got told to fuck off. Patty then stormed out of the room, slammed the door behind her then came back in and really let rip, calling Claire some really horrible things (including the phrase 'pandered to cunt and a terrible fucking mother- Claire's Mum watches her little boy when she's in classes.) Patty threatened to slap Claire.

At this point, Claire was almost in tears so I stepped in again and got between them. Patty got right in my face and told me I was a 'horrible fat cunt who thought I was better than everyone else' and I honestly thought she was going to hit me.

At this point, some of the senior lectures stepped in and told Patty to leave. I'm not sure what's going to happen but I don't want to continue the course if Patty is still on it because I'm not comfortable around her now. Claire went home because she was so upset and I've just heard through a mutual friend that she's been in tears over it.

I'd like to ask for Patty to be removed from the course and I think Claire feels the same. Neither of us have had chance to speak to our course tutor over it (we're all in tomorrow so will see her then). I honestly feel sick when I think of going in. What do I do now?

Police? I would report that, I think.

Patty is the cunt. I hope to god she isn't studying to be an hcp with that attitude. I imagine her behaviour will be classed as gross misconduct which could result in her expulsion

I'm sorry that's so long. Thanks for reading.

Pattys behaviour was. Ono let Ely unacceptable. Do you know if there's anything else going on in her life? Struggling with the course, or ill, or a family circumstance? Not making excuses for her, just seeing if this behaviour is normal, or out of character.

*completely !

The police? Really because someone shouted and threatened "to slap" someone? I really think they have better things to worry about!

Yes, I think you need to speak to your tutor and refuse to work with this woman anymore, you have good reason. She sounds

I hope you're alright. Nobody deserves this kind of treatment, and education is supposed to be the polar opposite of "being afraid to say stuff in case you're thumped".

Of course it is possible Patty may have acted out of character and would benefit from a second chance - sometimes people are horrendous because they are hurt or scared or insecure and a little kindness can be what they need - if your uni decide to go that way, and you decide to go with it, I would be very clear that you expect an apology and no repeats of anything LIKE that behaviour, EVER.

What kind of subject are you studying? Blimey talk about an over reaction.
I would be notifying the university of my intentions to contact the police and doing just that.
When I was at university a student on my course got very aggressive one evening in our (university owned) halls and threatened to kill someone (knife in hand). I called the police and she was removed from the course within the week, losing her entire medical career in an instant.

I wouldn't tolerate remaining on the course with Patty, she sounds like a.) an attention seeking nightmare and b.) as though she has some serious issues.

Who would report a argument to the police? What do you think they'll do?

I would make a formal complaint to the university OP and begin a formal grievance against Patty. It's for them
To deal with her. It sounds awful and she sounds like a total nut job.

How embarrassing.

Pattys behaviour is bonkers, but Claire sounds snide as well. Sometimes snide people make their snide remarks to the wrong person.

Write down exactly what was said in as much detail as possible while it is fresh in your mind. Give a copy to your tutor and ask what you else you need to do to report this more formally to the Head of Department, Dean of Students (if that is the person who handle student welfare) or the university.

They university can investigate and find out what is going on with Patty, whether this is normal for her or whether there is something going on that is causing her to be borderline violent and aggressive.

You can definitely tell them that you are not comfortable working with her on the course. They may propose various solutions such as having her sit well away from you in lectures and not assigning you to mutual work groups, to telling her to leave the class and repeat it during the next session, to leaving the university altogether. I wouldn't give them an ultimatum, frame it more as 'I don't feel safe with this person around, what is the university going to do to guarantee my safety?'. If possible put in writing that you do not feel safe with her around.

Given that universities in the US (where I am) are quite happy to let accused rapists continue to be on courses together with their victims, even housing them in the same dorms) I am not sanguine that she will be kicked off the course.

I´d start off by writing an email to the course tutor and head of dept outlining exactly what happened and saying that you both are concerned about continuing the course with Patty. Ask them what the complaints procedure for another student is at your university. Then see what response you get from them and take it from there.

I'm a lecturer and in my institution that would be taken seriously. Especially the threat of violence. However, removing someone from the course is a huge deal and in reality people rarely get kicked off.
You should have an acceptable behaviour or harassment policy available on your uni's website. The best thing is to take a good look at that tonight and assess what you think the action should be. write down some notes about what happened, but more importantly how it made you feel. Then speak with your tutor, using the uni's guidance on this as a framework for what you would like to happen.
So sorry this happened X

It's mental health awareness month
I'd say she needs some help

I would report to police, yes. Calling people abusive names and threatening to hit them is criminal behaviour. If I felt intimidated I would report it unless I thought I had honestly provoked it or the person had mental health difficulties.

I am a lecturer and I agree that you should both write an account of what happened, and then see the Head of Department asap about this to make a formal complaint. This badly breaches all sorts of HE policies including bullying and harassment. It will most likely be investigated, the student will be called in to respond to the allegations, and will be able to bring a student union representative or friend with her. If she is found to be guilty of breaching the regulations she will be disciplined and/or asked to leave. Usually however students settle down and behave once they realise where the boundaries are.

PS No need for police, the university will actually be able to do a lot more.

I think reporting to the police is way OTT surely you have some sort of grievance procedure at uni to follow instead. I think everybody involved needs to learn from this experience

She may well need mental health help but she is also an adult and needs to be held accountable for her outrageous behaviour! I would definitely be seeing the course tutor to make a strong complaint and requesting that she be removed from the course.

Personally I don't let anyone get away with threats of violence against me. The more people who know that this behaviour is unacceptable and criminal, the better people will be able to get on with their business without twats thinking they can say whatever they like with no consequences. I have never in my adult life threatened anyone and I can't see why anyone would think it was okay to do so.

Lodge a complaint with the university- hells bells, you're paying enough to be there and should be able to enjoy your course without my fear of being harassed and verbally abused.

She didn't threaten to hit you though You said you just thought she might.

She 'just' called you a cunt. There's no way that's bad enough for someone to get kicked off a course.

I'm a lecturer too, and Boffin's advice is what I would have said. My institution would also take that enormously seriously.

It sounds like Claire massively overreacted, and then carried on overreacting when challenged (people trying to calm her down) and got worked up.

Patty was nasty to begin with, there was absolutely no need to make that kind of remark and I understand why, when at University, presumably as grown adults - that kind of thing will have hit hard.

I don't know what's the right answer tbh. I'd be very unimpressed with both of them - you've seen what both of them are like now.

Don't be scared of going in as you have presumably paid for this course and even if you haven't, you still have a right to be there. But if you feel that you need to make a formal complaint with the university, then do it. They have complaint policies in place for a reason.