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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To think this person should be removed from our course?

99 replies

ImportSave · 08/05/2017 19:35

Hi,

Had a horrible encounter today at Uni. A small group of us were doing some quiet work in preparation for a presentation we're giving. The three of us were working away quite happily in an empty classroom, when another member of our course came in and joined us (for clarity, I'll call her Patty- not her real name.) Patty was putting other members of our class down and made a comment about some recent results where she got a pass grade, but someone else in the room had had to change a few things to pass that assignment.

One of the other women (Claire, not real name/clarity) made a joking remark along the lines of 'well, some of us got good marks'. Claire seemed to realize her comment wasn't very nice and said sorry straight away. Patty then got up and demanded that Claire join her in the hallway. At this point, Patty was visibly angry and was shouting that she wanted an apology.

I tried to calm things down by pointing out Claire had said sorry, and that everyone needed to calm down. I got told to fuck off. Patty then stormed out of the room, slammed the door behind her then came back in and really let rip, calling Claire some really horrible things (including the phrase 'pandered to cunt and a terrible fucking mother- Claire's Mum watches her little boy when she's in classes.) Patty threatened to slap Claire.

At this point, Claire was almost in tears so I stepped in again and got between them. Patty got right in my face and told me I was a 'horrible fat cunt who thought I was better than everyone else' and I honestly thought she was going to hit me.

At this point, some of the senior lectures stepped in and told Patty to leave. I'm not sure what's going to happen but I don't want to continue the course if Patty is still on it because I'm not comfortable around her now. Claire went home because she was so upset and I've just heard through a mutual friend that she's been in tears over it.

I'd like to ask for Patty to be removed from the course and I think Claire feels the same. Neither of us have had chance to speak to our course tutor over it (we're all in tomorrow so will see her then). I honestly feel sick when I think of going in. What do I do now?

OP posts:

19lottie82 · 08/05/2017 21:10

trifle threatening to slap someone in the heat of an argument IS NOT a worthy of a police investigation. You're being utterly ridiculous.

Would you really be happy to take the resources away from a rape or house breaking investigation for this? Seriously?

Trifleorbust · 08/05/2017 21:12

19lottie82

'The heat of an argument' doesn't make threats okay. Please don't bring rape into it. If she had slapped the woman, that would still take resources away from more serious crimes. Would that make it 'ridiculous' to report it?

strangehumour · 08/05/2017 21:13

I can't imagine the police would have time to investigate an argument - surely thousands of arguments happen every day in the UK. They don't have time to turn up to houses and farms that have been burgled here never mind a row.

Try speaking to her. She's probably just as upset as you about this and wishing it had never happened. It would be best to find a way to get along if you're going to be studying together.

AlternativeTentacle · 08/05/2017 21:16

What did C do that was so bad? I don't get it.

19lottie82 · 08/05/2017 21:17

trifle but she didn't, so I don't quite get your point?
And the fact is if you did report this you would be taking resources away from more "serious crimes", including possible rape victims, and those of other crimes. I'm sorry if you don't like me saying that, but it's a fact!

Just because something is a crime in a black / white sense doesn't mean it warrants a police investigation.

Instasista · 08/05/2017 21:18

But Claire reports threats of violence against her, not OP. You're advising OP to go to police.

Instasista · 08/05/2017 21:20

Luckily she wouldn't take resources away from more serious crimes because the police would politely and discreetly tell her to bugger off

19lottie82 · 08/05/2017 21:22

insta Im pretty sure that they would need to send someone round to get the full story before they told her to bugger off, inc filing a report that it didn't warrant any further action. That would most likely be a couple of hours work at the very least?

user1489179512 · 08/05/2017 21:27

OP:
Did this happen at a Russell Group university?

melj1213 · 08/05/2017 21:29

OP, I think that whilst you could report it to the police, in this case I think it would be an OTT reaction for it to be the first response.

Your University should have some sort of procedure for reporting complaints against students, so I'd be getting yourself to the Student Services office and possibly the Student Union to see what they can do to help and to find out what you would require for a report.

I'd also make sure to make a detailed report of what happened - what exactly did you witness, what exactly did you say etc - that can be submitted and try to get any other people in the room who witnessed the event to do the same (I know you said you were working in an empty classroom but you also mentioned senior lecturers were there so if there were any other people, eg course mates not in your group but who were also working in the room)

Nanodust · 08/05/2017 21:34

Hmmm, whilst Patty doesn't sound pleasant the starting point does seem to have been a snide remark from Claire. Of course Patty's reaction was over the top and her comments unacceptable, but she went into a room of 3 others and was made fun of (a very sensitive subject of her not being as capable).

This might be followed up by the Uni. However from what you have described I wouldn't be surprised if Patty has some disclosed mental health needs. If that is the case then she may be required to apologise but it is unlikely she will be removed.

The best approach would be to formally let your Personal Tutor/Chief Advisor know what happened. Explain the outcome you would prefer and then ask for feedback. Do reflect and think, would you like this person thrown off or would a sincere apology and then avoiding her work best?

Hope all goes well.

AnnieAnoniMouse · 08/05/2017 21:43

Jesus wept, what a bloody fuss over a few cross words. It's no sodding wonder our police are over stretched when people suggest calling them over shite like this.

Patty was gossiping & being horrible about people on the course, Claire made it personal, Patty 'invited her outside'...6 of 1, half a dozen of the other.

You all just need to grow up.

forfuckssakenet · 08/05/2017 21:45

What are you studying?

Madmotherintheattic · 08/05/2017 21:47

There are several people you can report this to and resources you can use. Universities rely heavily on triangulation of sources in investigating things like this, so you should encourage everyone who also saw/heard it to also report it (you may be surprised by how others will respond to this request, often after a day or two they don't want to get involved).

So I'd recommend on the academic side, report to your tutor and the Head of Dept. If the HOD doesn't respond quickly and seem as though s/he is going to take it seriously, write also to the Dean.

Also make an (urgent) appointment with the student counselling service, because, for yourself, you need to deal with how you will feel if she is not removed from the course and if it turns out you and the woman who was her initial target end up being the only ones reporting it, you might end up feeling a bit cross and let down by the others and by the university, who need a lot of evidence and usually a pattern of misbehaviour before they can kick someone off a course. If this doesn't happen, you need support so this horrible event doesn't put you off your own goals of completing this course!

Write it all down now, everything you can remember, in order, and with times, because the details will get fuzzy quite quickly.

Finally, I am so sorry this happened. Often uni leads to stress - students' mental health suffers due to the intense pressure, and it sounds like this girl would also benefit from counselling. Try to take a deep breath and realize she might have been freaking out for all sorts of anxiety reasons and just snapped. It might be even worse for her right now than it is for you two, the ones she verbally attacked. It's a pressure cooker when grades and presentations and juggling family etc are all involved.

AuntMarch · 08/05/2017 21:47

While it all sounds very unpleasant, I think it a bit extreme to say you do not feel safe around her when she was angry, but not actually violent. But I do understand that reaction if it only happened a while before you posted.

She may well realise she overreacted. There may be other reasons that she was feeling particularly sensitive and on edge. That does not excuse her behaviour but it does mean she may even have shocked herself and realised she needs some support in some area and that it wouldn't happen again. Anyone can act totally out of character when under stress.

I would report it to the university as others have said, but I would not refuse to be in a room with her. They will investigate it and she will be told to sort her manner out so it is highly unlikely you would have cause to feel unsafe going forward.

QuestionableMouse · 08/05/2017 22:08

Having been in situations like this at work, it's horrible and even though there was no actual violence, the threat of violence is very real and it is scary. I don't think anyone is over reacting by suggesting this woman is removed.

Trifleorbust · 08/05/2017 22:30

19lottie82

Threats of violence are in and of themselves against the law. You don't get to decide what warrants a police investigation. The police do. So I would report it. We will have to agree to disagree about whether I would be justified in doing so.

Kokusai · 08/05/2017 22:35

It wasn't "in the heat of the moment in the middle of an argument" it was basically an unprovoked tirade.

i wouldn't call the police, mainly because I think uni will do more. I would defo persue this thru uni.

YeahILoveSummer · 08/05/2017 23:15

Trifle

Seriously? Involve the police over an aurgument?

Trifleorbust · 09/05/2017 05:40

YeahILoveSummer

Like I said, it would depend on my own role in said argument, but in a professional environment another adult calling someone a fat cunt and threatening to hit them is quite serious, so I would report it if I felt threatened and intimidated, yes.

pluck · 09/05/2017 06:53

How old are you all? Even if you're in your 20s rather than 18+, you're all probably still young enough to negotiate your way out of this without involving the police. Ask tutors for help in establishing boundaries, by all means, but don't escalate so sharply until that option - and the option of talking to one another - has (have) been exhausted. "Threatening to slap" could be mere rhetoric (and blowing off steam is a damned sight better than actually slspping), unless it's part of a pattern. If such behaviour persists despite firm boundaries, then escalate and you'll have a better case.

londonrach · 09/05/2017 06:59

We had a patty on my course at uni (hcp). The lecturers seemed scared of her. Something big happened (wont tell you want) and she was removed from the course weeks from our finals. I suspect she had metal health issues hence why she was given the benefit of doubt for so long.

Trifleorbust · 09/05/2017 07:13

pluck

Boundaries? This isn't a friendship or dysfunctional relationship. These people are closer to colleagues. I have clear boundaries but by the sounds of some of the posters here I should just 'suck it up' as part of normal interaction when someone threatens to hit me.

JohnnyMcGrathSaysFuckOff · 09/05/2017 07:28

User

JohnnyMcGrathSaysFuckOff · 09/05/2017 07:30

OP I am sorry this happened. You have already beem given good advice. I imagine Patty is already having a student support meeting arranged for her!

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