Not sure what to do re FIL comment

[BluePeppers]

At the weekend, we went to see my PIL. Nice discussion and then FIL started to go on at how it was really necessary to do something about all those immigrants as the uk was invaded and there was only 60% of true English in the country anymore. Followed by 'oh but I don't mean you'.

I am from a European country and have been here for 20 years, married with his ds for 19.... we have two dcs who have a dual citizenship (so really his comment could easily apply to the dcs too)

MIL tried her best to save the whole thing by mentioning invasions by the vikings etc... (I think she was horrified). I just went quiet.

Now this is playing in my mind. DH has brushed all that under the carpet. But somehow I'm dreading going back to see them. We rarely talk about politics and they've never expressed any views like this. this has rattled me though....

I know plenty of "immigrants" and none of them match the picture you paint, itsa. In fact, we and our economy are lucky they came here and not somewhere else.
Sadly I also know some feckless "indigenous " Brits. As well as Brits who just need a helping hand to get out of the poverty they have fallen into. And who would jump at a helping hand.

Apologies itsa, it wasn't you that said that.

Radishal I don't think you meant me, did you? I'm one of those nasty immigrants myself (the hardworking variety, no less). I was quoting and responding to someone else - think the name was aptly something like blankmind but CBA to go back a page to check.

Cross post Radishal :) No problem!

You do know that this doesn't apply to EU immigrants, right? Because as a group we contribute a lot more to the economy than we take out, and EU citizens were never able to come here to "freeload" but actually had to be working and paying taxes or be supported by a partner or studying ? We've never been able to just "come to this country to exploit our social security system" - nor would we have wanted to, as surprise, surprise, many of our countries of origin have much better systems in place. We came here because the UK was seen as a global, outward-looking country where we could make a life for ourselves while making a positive contribution

Please could you provide some statistics to back up your claims to speak for everyone?

One more thing: attitudes like yours is EXACTLY why I no longer want to stay here, even though I've made my life here for the past 20 years (all my adult life). Every time someone says to me "oh, we didn't mean you - you're the RIGHT kind of immigrant" it just makes it clearer that this is not a community I want to be part of. Luckily my DH and children all have dual passports so we have options. My children are have repeatedly said that they are ashamed of their British passports

Very racist anti British rant

Don't bring your kids up to be ashamed of their heritage, to spite others

Please could you provide some statistics to back up your claims to speak for everyone?

Sure, happy to! Of course I don't speak for everyone, but the facts remain that EU immigrants have never been able to come here just to claim benefits - that's a total myth.

One article here, with some useful charts . A couple of relevant quotes:

"EU migrants are more likely to be in work than natives, with the participation rate for the group at just below 80 per cent, refuting the idea that most immigrants do not "contribute"."

"Around 10 per cent of the UK's 2.1 million construction workers are estimated to hail from abroad. And construction organisations have warned that they will struggle to complete projects without being able to draw on skilled migrant labour from Europe."

"For nurses the share of non-British staff was 21 per cent. For doctors the non-British share was 30 per cent. The IPPR think tank has warned that the NHS would "collapse" without its European Union workers."

"It also estimates that overseas students directly contribute around £11.8bn to the UK economy."

"The tax benefit of the presence of immigrants is seen as outweighing the financial cost they impose through greater pressure on local infrastructure and public services.

Other research by the National Institute of Economic and Social Research suggests immigrants boost our national productivity by filling gaps in the labour market that would otherwise not be filled, which ultimately means faster GDP growth and higher incomes per head for us all."

You're welcome :)

After the last Ice Age, Britain was empty.

We are all immigrants from somewhere.

Here is some further useful information

"Last month, an Office for National Statistics study found that a million European immigrants were active on HMRC computer systems in 2013-14 (either paying tax or claiming benefits), suggesting that the 130,000 figure used by Cameron represented far less than 40 per cent. Immigrants were also reported to have contributed more than £3bn in income taxes, while claiming roughly £0.5bn in benefits."

"......he is thinking of the lazy, feckless workshy people who only want to come to this country to exploit our social security system, have a 'free' house and all that goes with it without any intention of ever paying into the community or being part of our culture......"

...What, all 32 of them? Was that really what he meant by 40%* of the population?

*Or whatever. If you don't have to back things up, then I can make up numbers too....

Don't bring your kids up to be ashamed of their heritage, to spite others

Wouldn't dream of it. We're very proud that their heritage is 100% European - they have British passports as a result of being born here to hardworking non-British parents, and until now we were also proud of our adopted country.

But forgive me for not being impressed by the attidudes of the "52%" which among other things have caused me to have to close down my business and make my hard-working staff redundant (due to the plummeting of the pound which has resulted in a spike in purchasing costs of our European goods, which would have squeezed our margins to the point where it was no longer viable). And the racist statements on this thread so far are of the "right/wrong kind of immigrant" variety. This I want no part of, and I'm proud that my children stand up for their non-white friends.

I'd consider MIL as a potential ally, write off FIL, and worry about DH. Is he racist but keeping quiet about it for an easy time?

itsawonderfulworld

It is a shame you don't feel proud any more. Do you feel things really have shifted that much towards you, attitudes I mean?

Are things now, worse for you here, than in your home country?

You do sound genuinely unhappy which begs the question, if things are so bad, would you not be better going back to where you were born?

I don't mean that in a racist way - just if one place were so bad, I would consider going back to where I was from - I myself have a dual passport

It really makes me wonder if people are suffering out and out racism, I haven't witnessed any myself but wondering if people are genuinely feeling so unwelcome that they are not proud to be here any more, which is quite sad eh

Sounds familiar to a lot of people I came across working at the CAB, many people crossed out the option British on forms and wrote English instead, apparently to some one is a negative! I had quite a few comments from staff along the lines of I'm English, anyone can be called British can't they seafood, they just hand passports out like sweets etc etc probably aimed at me because I wasn't born here but have a British passport, they used 'English' as a way to exclude me.

OP I'm not sure what I'd suggest in your situation, for the sake of peace I wouldn't bring it up again unless he went on to make similar comments but it's very disappointing that your dh didn't say anything, maybe he was very shocked?

We're all people of Earth, what bloody difference does it make?

I also think that the FIL was probably on a rant from poor 'news' reporting. All these articles about immigrants coming from x,y or z that bring their 3 wives, 4 siblings and 26 children and get given a £5million mansion to house them all whilst good old Vicky from (local area) and her 3 kids are squashed in a crappy bedsit with another 2 other families she doesn't know and 3 adult men that are convicts for sexual crimes, with asbestos ceilings and rats from the sewer works next door.
Ok so I'm completely exaggerating there. But it's these 'immigrants' that come (might be UK, US or anywhere else for that matter) just to claim the benefits that we pay for. Ignore that fact that most immigrants are in paid lawful employment and are contributing to the tax just like any 'English' person who is in paid lawful employment does.

Simply, it's convincing the masses that the country is going to shit because of the very rare one of situation and convincing us it's all of them taking money/jobs/houses/whatever away from us hard working British people, whilst ignoring the shit loads of those complaining British people that are frauding government hand outs. Because you know, they would get more if England wasn't full of immigrants, innit.

You see this EXACTLY the reason why I will NOT talk about it with PIL.
Because I suspect that this is the way any discussion could go down (hill).

Zap i think this very much what my MIL was getting at with all her Viking stuff.

Dreamy fwiw, I know quite a few 'immigrants' who have very strong reaction to Brexit. That's because they saw Britain as their home. They never saw themselves as an 'immigrant' even less with the very negative connotation that word has been given nowdays. So they have felt VERY hurt by the discourse of Brexit. They have felt deeply attacked (not helped by all the decision of the current gouvernement who has had a politic of fear towards EU immigrants, which means that a hell of EU citizens now feel they don't belong here anymore, even after 20 years and being so fully integrated in the society that they have British children).
An animal who has been hurt tends to attack. People who have been treated so badly tend to bite back.

It's nothing to do with an anti British rant. It's everything to do with being repeatedly kicked to the ground by the people who (or so we thought as it was Rey much the politically correct discourse you could hear everywhere incl on MN) had welcome you with open arms.

Fwiw, that sort of opinion isn't restricted to EU citizens. I know of British citizens (some living in the uk, some living in the EU) having very similar ideas. They don't hate Britain. They hate the discourse that we hear atm.

Its awful when in-laws come up with that sort of things, isn't it? Once, i was with my in-laws in a framing shop, we were without my husband. My FIL proceeded to make some lighthearted jokes about god knows what with a sales guy, while another salesman was taking my order, out of the blue, FIL points to me and says (must be something they were talking about) 'look at her, she's an illegal alien this one ha ha ha ha' - he thought it was hilarious, i was mortified. Left quite quickly - husband had a word with him after the incident and fil has toned his concept of lighthearted jokes now (many years on), but the damage has been done and i know how he truly feels about me through that slip up.

Simply, it's convincing the masses that the country is going to shit because of the very rare one of situation and convincing us it's all of them taking money/jobs/houses/whatever away from us hard working British people
Yep I'm suspecting there is a lot to do with that :( I mean where in earth is that idea that 40% of the population is made of immigrant come from??
Note PIL leave in the countryside with very very few immigrants. They certainly do not experience high levels of immigration on a daily basis.

One of the many, many valid reasons why people don't "just leave" when they are saddened by the direction Britain is going in is out of consideration for the grandparents, who would miss their grandchildren enormously if they were taken to live in another country. Even when those same grandparents are narrow minded enough to spout bullshit about immigrants "going home".
I am not an immigrant, but it is one of the reasons I wouldn't like to leave Britain - my mum would be devastated if I did, but she will still say that "remoaners should leave if they don't like it...."

That's really sad. I appreciate the explanation as I would not have known, I don't know anyone who feels like this, well at least has said it or hinted at it that anyone would feel attacked.

Everyone I know sees brexit as perhaps a way forwards to gain more control from the law lords at EU, I have never heard anyone say they hope immigrants go, or anything like that.

I have always felt UK acts with generosity towards people from other lands and other cultures, even to the point of watering down their own culture to assist with blending in others and find it sad that this is akin to 'repeatedly kicking people to the ground'. Isn't it strange how folk see the same situation differently?

It is sad that you feel like that and it is not something I have felt myself or noticed but I am not saying you are wrong to feel that, I haven't walked in your shoes

My MIL told us she would vote in favour Brexit "for us". "You'll be sorry when this country is overtaken by immigrants" she continued. I came to the UK twenty years ago... She's now seen the error of her ways, blaming the press she was reading. I think this was also helped by the fact we told her that we wouldn't stay in Brexit Britain and she got scared about not seeing her DD as often...

These attitudes make me so sad.

I would just ignore your FIL. Doesn't sound very bright, if I'm honest.

Dreamily it's more complicated than that when you've spent most of your life outside the country that you're originally from (30 years in my case, 20 years in the UK which is pretty much all my adult life). Work, friends, schooling etc are all important considerations when thinking of starting afresh somewhere else. We have to think of our children first and foremost as they're at a stage in their education where it would be unfair to just uproot them from the only home they've ever known. And DH and I aren't even from the same country (we met here).

But no, I no longer feel welcome here (despite my many wonderful British friends - but then more than one of them have told me that they themselves are now sadly ashamed to be English and wish they had the option to live elsewhere). I may yet apply for British citizenship for practical reasons - but ironically I've never felt less British and my heart certainly wouldn't be in it.

For now, we will probably stay put for the children's sake and as it's in our financial interest (DH is a high earner) but we're certainly looking at retiring somewhere else as we no longer feel an emotional connection to the UK. Unless things change of course and we end up with a very soft Brexit or even a return to the EU, but sadly I don't see this happening. Personally, I think the UK (or what's left of it) is just going to sink slowly in terms of international importance and standard of living, with the super rich continuing to benefit and the poor even more disillusioned than before. And rather than blaming the government, the disenfranchised will continue to blame everyone else - the EU and forriners in general. I hope I'm wrong - I would dearly love this to be the case but time will tell.

Sorry OP for derailing your thread! Back to the issue at hand: I too have been told many times "oh, we don't mean YOU, you're contributing" (and it helps that I'm blonde and a fluent English-speaker). So sad to see this once wonderful country succumb to racism and even fascism.

We've had this with close family and after not seeing them for a while (to recover from hurt feelings) decided that we valued a relationship with them and that they are fundamentally good people though misguided. We keep the relationship very superficial now but value family too much to allow it to cause a rift.

blankmind apt username. You've described something that mostly doesn't exist.