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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To disagree with the £10 minimum wage policy ?

340 replies

Spice22 · 05/05/2017 15:57

This is a genuine question - I've been reading some of the policies and I can't quite decide how I feel about this.

I have 2 key problems ;

  1. Won't prices for everything just go up anyway, meaning there's no real change and people will still need tax credits?
  1. My biggest concern if I'm honest. Will this not devalue professions? Currently, a cleaner may earn £7 and a programmer , for example, may earn £13 an hour. If the minimum wage rises to £10, there will be a £3 differential between someone who has gained qualifications and someone who is in a MW job. I really don't see many companies increasing the wage of the professional when they are faced with a huge bill to increase the wage of the MW worker. So why would anyone go to uni? Especially when they can work overtime and easily outearn the ones who did?

AIBU and why?

OP posts:
HolditFinger · 05/05/2017 16:01

If that happens, employers will just employ less people and use zero hour contracts more.

Pinkheart5917 · 05/05/2017 16:02

£10 an hour is a nice idea but the reality is business will put prices of products up or cut staff to cover the rise.

I don't know if your being unreasonable or not tbh as I don't really know why to think either.

busterhall · 05/05/2017 16:03

I don't see why its a problem, the Programmer and the Cleaner both do a valuable job why should they not be both paid enough to live on.

To me it just seems like a way of saying a nice middle class job offers more value to society than something and working class person might traditionally do and that bollocks quite frankly.

I think more wage equality is an excellent thing and I say that as someone who is a professional.

busterhall · 05/05/2017 16:03

If Zero hour contracts are a problem then vote Labour next month!

user838383 · 05/05/2017 16:06

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Spice22 · 05/05/2017 16:08

buster but what about the fact that less people would bother to go to uni to become doctors,lawyers,accountants, teachers etc ? Most people would probably just choose MW job as there is not financial benefit to take on a student loan and then years of stress studying and working in a professional job.

Pink and Holdit, that's my thinking aswell

OP posts:
TheMysteriousJackelope · 05/05/2017 16:09

The company DH works for experienced a minimum wage hike when Los Angeles increased the minimum wage to $15 an hour. All the hourly workers got an increase as they had people who had just started at $15 who would have been earning the same as people who had been there for years.

I think someone calculated how much Walmart would need to increase prices by to pay their workers a decent wage, it was something like 2 cents on a package of pasta. On the other hand Walmart is able to pay crappy wages because their employees have to turn to food stamp programs and similar. Prices may increase, but the tax burden would be less. (Walmart actually provide their employees with claim information as soon as they start work so they can apply for government benefits, they cost their surrounding towns about $900,000 a year in benefit programs).

People like me actually choose to shop at business that treat their employees well as opposed to cheap, shoddy, places like Walmart. I can afford it and I feel it supports people in my local community, which in turn helps me by reducing crime, homelessness, begging, empty businesses, and general decline.

I don't know about the UK, but in the US companies can get away by paying shitty wages as they know the government will pick up the slack. It makes for huge income inequality with executives earning tens of millions of dollars a year as the profits that should go to hourly wages are going to a select few. The minimum wage should have been increasing gradually since the 1970s, but it hasn't. The campaigns for minimum wage increases are because people have recognized that it hasn't kept pace and is no longer a living wage in most locations.

FlyingJellyfishintheAttic · 05/05/2017 16:09

I'm a professional and I am all for equality in pay. I want enough to live on and support my family not so I can say that I earn twice as much as someone else. As long as my daughter is provided for I am happy.

clairethewitch70 · 05/05/2017 16:11

It's a nice idea but in all reality we will have to reduce our staff hours down.

montgomerie · 05/05/2017 16:12

It's not just about money but also status, pensions, security, maternity and sick pay. Professions like teaching still offer those. The minimum wage should absolutely go up.

TheMysteriousJackelope · 05/05/2017 16:12

You are looking at this as if people only choose a job based on salary.

My main motivations were having an interesting, varied, challenging, well respected career, with skills that were in short supply so that job security was good. At that time a secretary who had been working since learning school was earning more than I earned as a new graduate. That didn't cause me or any of the others on my course to jack it in and take up shorthand. We didn't want to be secretaries, we wanted to be engineers.

Kursk · 05/05/2017 16:13

Spice

YANBU

buster

What about risk=reward. Some jobs need to be well paid to get people to do them, or because they are dangerous ( commercial diver)?

TheMysteriousJackelope · 05/05/2017 16:13

I managed to leave out 'I went to university to study chemical engineering' in my latest screed.

Kokusai · 05/05/2017 16:15

If that happens, employers will just employ less people and use zero hour contracts more.

^This

Self service at tills, more use of technology, lower staffing ratios and higher workloads

BeyondThePage · 05/05/2017 16:18

Self service at tills, more use of technology, lower staffing ratios and higher workloads

that will happen anyway.

2cats2many · 05/05/2017 16:19

What do you earn OP? Is it more than £10/hr or less?

SapphireStrange · 05/05/2017 16:24

Someone who could earn hundreds of pounds an hour as a lawyer isn't that likely to throw that over in favour of being a window-cleaner (for example) on £10 per hour.

PyongyangKipperbang · 05/05/2017 16:24

So it comes down to not wanting lesser educated people to earn a decent wage because professionals wont feel superior anymore?

PyongyangKipperbang · 05/05/2017 16:26

Come back Marx, all is forgiven.

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" has a lot to say for it.

PNGirl · 05/05/2017 16:26

Not solicitors, no, but if I worked in a call centre as a team leader for 13 quid an hour and all my staff went up to a tenner without any of the headache of managing, appraisals, referred complaints etc I'd want a payrise!

Beerwench · 05/05/2017 16:27

I think you've got to ask who exactly will benefit from the £10 min wage?
Take this example -
I am on min wage, I also get some child tax credit. My wage increased in April and so I earned more which is then deducted from child tax credit (don't have an issue with that BTW) therefore I am no better off, my employer is worse off because they are paying more out in wages, so..... Where has the extra money gone? Tax credit is saving a bit on my award, that's where. Meanwhile the government feel like hero's for raising the nmw when in cases like mine, they're the ones benefitting from it.
I realise that for those not on tax credit or means tested benefit for working people this does make a difference, and so it should IMO, but it irritates me when it's assumed that a raise in nmw will improve the lives of everyone who received it, it won't and doesn't.
I am no financially better off, the difference is I earn a bit more and am given a bit less - and I don't have an issue with that happening, I'd like to be able to earn enough to support my family fully without claiming, but the reality is I can't.
I worry how long my employer can sustain the increases without having to lose a member of staff, which then puts someone out of work and on benefit until they can find work again.
Don't know what the answer is to be honest.

intheknickersoftime · 05/05/2017 16:27

I think this kind of minimum wage is needed to negate tax credit cuts.

HappyFlappy · 05/05/2017 16:28

Why should anyone who works a full week not earn enough to have a decent standard of living - whether they are lavatory attendants or neurosurgeons?

Yes - there needs to be a differential - but everyone is entitled to the dignity of a living wage. And are you really of the opinion that the only thing that attracts people to a job which requires qualifications is the wage? What about status? What about personal pride in achievement? What about interest in what you are doing? What about the comfort of a job which is conducted in a clean and pleasant environment rather than in a filthy and dangerous one?

Do you really think that if (say) the law was not well-paid, then all present lawyers would say - "Stuff this for a game of soldiers!" and seek out jobs as bin men?

And some of the most highly paid individuals in our culture aren't people who have slogged for qualifications - they are "celebrities" of sport and screen. A lot of these are paid a damn sight more than a lot of hardworking highly qualified individuals. Is that right or wrong? And what about all of the "Hooray Henrys and Henriettas" who are given well-paid sinecures) e.g. in "political research" during their university vacations - not because they are particularly good at (whatever) or particularly hard-working, but because of who their family is? How fair is that?

Paying people below the cost of living may be saving a company money - i.e. reducing the profits for the shareholders - but in terms of the country it is costing ALL of us, because if people can't live on what they earn, they have to claim benefits to support their families. They also cost the health service a lot of money because poor people are more likely to be chronically ill - depression, anxiety, and diseases caused by poor diet and poor housing.

There is nothing wrong with well-qualified, experienced people earning more than individuals in unskilled jobs - I agree there needs to be a differential. Doctors for instance, have a lot of responsibility heaped upon their shoulders as well as their surgery hours, and should be compensated for this, but we need the lower paid workers as well.

If the politicians all disappeared, one could argue that things would chug along pretty much as now; if all of the professional footballers disappeared, perhaps for some people their quality of life would be diminished, but we'd all get over it; if all of the the refuse collectors disappeared, the country would vanish under a mountain of filth very quickly.

Whose job is most important?

DJBaggySmalls · 05/05/2017 16:28

'Unless forced to, bosses will treat people like shit'.
Yes, many will. join a union and vote Labour.

intheknickersoftime · 05/05/2017 16:28

I've crossed with beerwench, her example is what I'm thinking about.

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