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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To wish the EU would stop being so arsey with us!

377 replies

GreatAuntPrudish · 04/05/2017 08:26

Juncker is an utter prick - leaking details of the dinner at No.10.
Then there's Barnier, Hollande and other EU officials warning us how ugly it's going to get.

Poland and France wanting to extract every last billion out of us!

They're playing into May's hands - giving her the opportunity to look like the Boudicca of the 21st century when she is actually an utterly useless PM.

I wish they'd show some consideration for the 48%

I'm a Remainer - still want to stay in EU - but it's starting to piss me off so there's little chance the leavers who were starting to wobble will want to stay now.

The Daily Mail are relishing it Angry

OP posts:
chilipepper20 · 04/05/2017 15:04

Unpopular? Nope.

we have different definitions of popular then.

Both the french and dutch are teetering on leaving. Much of what's holding them back are the other drawbacks of their eurosceptic candidates. Yet, despite their huge drawbacks and often vile rhetoric, they still muster more votes than our eurosceptic party (both Wilders and Le Pen got more votes than UKIP).

If pro european parties in those countries were so confident about the EU's popularity, why not hold an in/out referendum like many people in their countries want? Because the odds of "losing" are too high.

scaryteacher · 04/05/2017 15:04

Krimbler Other countries can stay in and have ever closer union if they want....quite a lot of us in the UK didn't want that. We would like to have a free trade agreement with the EU; to buy into the bits we feel important, and the EU can buy into our security and intelligence.

It has already been stated and not refuted, that there will be a free trade deal www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/27/eu-trade-commissioner-says-bloc-will-do-post-brexit-free-trade/

KellysZeros · 04/05/2017 15:04

SylviaPoe, here's some info on how the EU is viewed across Europe - net positives apart from Greece (not surprisingly, France, UK and Spain)

I've no doubt that the EU should work harder to improve its reputation, by reforming. The UK could have been a strong leader there. Alas...

scaryteacher · 04/05/2017 15:06

kellys It wasn't for lack of trying; the EC/EU has no intention of reforming - why would it?

Krimbler · 04/05/2017 15:07

Both the french and dutch are teetering on leaving.

No. They're not.

Although the Anglophone press who view all European events through a Brexit prism would have you believe that is the case.

chilipepper20 · 04/05/2017 15:07

An interesting Guardian article by Yanis Varoufakis (ex Greek finance minister) about negotiating with the EU.

chilipepper20 · 04/05/2017 15:12

No. They're not.

if you say so.

Wilders (recent election): 13.1% (hailed as a "victory" for the EU).
Le Pen (round 1): 21.4% (a breathtaking amount in my opinion)
UKIP (2015 election): 12.7%

Lweji · 04/05/2017 15:14

We were the most out voted nation in the EU.

Mostly because the UK always had a foot out and didn't really seek to build alliances.

Valentine2 · 04/05/2017 15:14

Haven't RTFT but YABVU to ask this in the first place. Our country is leaving a club that is very hard o leave and we should have known this before going down that route. We can't have everything we want. Hmm

KellysZeros · 04/05/2017 15:14

Shit, here was the data
www.pewglobal.org/2016/06/07/euroskepticism-beyond-brexit/pm_2016-06-07_brexit-01/

Krimbler · 04/05/2017 15:15

You're doing that thing the British media does, assuming that every vote for a far right candidate is a vote to leave the EU. Because everything that happens is a reaction to Brexit.

Except it isn't.

scaryteacher · 04/05/2017 15:17

Valentine2 Shades of Hotel California then?

FreeNiki · 04/05/2017 15:18

Mostly because the UK always had a foot out and didn't really seek to build alliances.

Shouldn't have joined in the first place then.

SylviaPoe · 04/05/2017 15:28

Thanks Kelly.

Valentine2 · 04/05/2017 15:32

Scary

The world is not that black and white and lyrical. It's real world and shit has hit the fan. Everyone has to take care of their own and it was not like no one knew it wouldn't happen. And it's not like we wouldn't have done it had it been some other country that had decided to leave. This is how the world works. This is how we have done in the past. And like I said, lots of people warned this would happen.

chilipepper20 · 04/05/2017 15:32

You're doing that thing the British media does, assuming that every vote for a far right candidate is a vote to leave the EU. Because everything that happens is a reaction to Brexit.

So, what is a vote for Le Pen and Wilders then? Let's not forget there are no doubt eurosceptics in the Netherlands and France that wouldn't go near either candidate because they are really quite far right, and have said some very vile things.

Shit, here was the data

Thanks Kelly. It's good to have some hard numbers. Does that poll give you the impression the EU is popular? I'd say from the Netherlands on down (six of the eleven countries) it isn't very popular at all. 4 of those 6 have less than a 5 point spread separating unfavourable from favourable (the other two are France and Greece where the poll was very unfavourable). Populous Germany is among the six.

justmatureenough2bdad · 04/05/2017 15:34

asking again...

genuine question....if we were a country that got more money out of the EU than we put in (like significant disparity) and were leaving it, would EU leaders be standing up and saying, "we'll carry on paying you the same amount once once you leave for the duration of the previous agreement?"

FrenchJunebug · 04/05/2017 15:37

What did you think would happen?! The other European countries have warned from the start (before Brexit) was voted that the UK could not expect any preferential treatment and to be honest the way Teresa May has handled things didn't help negotiations.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 04/05/2017 15:40

would EU leaders be standing up and saying, "we'll carry on paying you the same amount once once you leave for the duration of the previous agreement?"

I'd suspect they would. It's a contractual obligation - the same as AFAIK the EU will pay money into the UK that it has agreed to do so until 2020 I think

whoputthecatout · 04/05/2017 15:41

No one should be surprised. It's how the EU works. You only have to read Varoufakis's account of how Greece was treated to know that.

squishysquirmy · 04/05/2017 15:42

No, justmature.
BUT
If the EU had already committed itself to funding specific projects within that country, and especially if those projects were partly completed, I would expect that money to still be spent. In particular if those projects were in the EU27's interests (like a scheme to deal with the migrant crisis, for eg).
And you would still expect the EU to pay for the pensions it contractually owed the MEPs of that country.

araiwa · 04/05/2017 15:44

surely most people could see this coming from miles away

those that campaigned for brexit would always bungle the whole thing about actually leaving- theyre bodgers to a man/ woman and never had any plan of what to do at all and lied to the british public about how great a deal we would get when we left.

the eu were always gonna play hardball because why not. fuck you britain- youre leaving us, why would we be kind to you. they also dont want to encourage any other countries to do the same but the way our incompetent foolish leaders are acting and how fucked up britain is and will be even more,we will be the number 1 reason noone ever leaves again

Krimbler · 04/05/2017 15:46

'So, what is a vote for Le Pen and Wilders then? Let's not forget there are no doubt eurosceptics in the Netherlands and France that wouldn't go near either candidate because they are really quite far right, and have said some very vile things.'

What is a vote for Wilders and Le Pen? Pretty obvious I'd have thought, it's a vote for fascism. No doubt there are many among the fascist supporters who would happily leave the EU but this is not evidence that France and the Netherlands are 'teetering on leaving'. As much as the Mail and the Telegraph would love to believe it is.

squishysquirmy · 04/05/2017 15:48

chillipepper: But do negative feelings about the EU necessarily translate to wanting to leave? Is it not possible to think the EU has problems, whilst also thinking that leaving the EU would cause far more problems for a country?

I ask as a Eurosceptic Remainer. Wink

Be wary of extrapolating too much from the answers to a specific question on "favourability".

FrenchJunebug · 04/05/2017 15:51

the vote for LePen has nothing to do with Europe! It's a vote of part despair, and a huge part racism.