To wish the EU would stop being so arsey with us!

[GreatAuntPrudish]

Juncker is an utter prick - leaking details of the dinner at No.10.
Then there's Barnier, Hollande and other EU officials warning us how ugly it's going to get.

Poland and France wanting to extract every last billion out of us!

They're playing into May's hands - giving her the opportunity to look like the Boudicca of the 21st century when she is actually an utterly useless PM.

I wish they'd show some consideration for the 48%

I'm a Remainer - still want to stay in EU - but it's starting to piss me off so there's little chance the leavers who were starting to wobble will want to stay now.

The Daily Mail are relishing it

The EU needed to have art50 triggered before starting negociations because the referendum was non binding, so the sovereign UK government needed to choose what to do (and whether or not to ignore the 48% of remainers.
TM then tried to to gain leverage for the negociations by saying lots of crazy things, unfortunately that failed (I don't blame her though, she is in a very weak position and trying her best).
It seems that the UK sees the EU solely as an economical union/business partnership. It is not just that. It is also political and members work in the best interest of each other. It's a sort of brotherhood (even if siblings are sometimes mean to each other re. Greece). France will not come out of the EU even if Lepen is elected, French people would not let that happen. The EU is what keeps the peace in Europe.

Justanotherposter00 Two excellent posts.
Shame, the op and others just get their viewpoints from the fake news sites formerly known as the national media.

Well in that case they may as well bankrupt us. If it makes no difference to defence or peace in Europe, and we have pretty much no impact on the rest of Europe, this is all a bit of a storm in a tea cup isn't it?

I don't know why we're surprised at this government's capacity to piss people off and be intransigent.
They're embroiled in disputes with doctors and train staff that have been rumbling on for over a year.

Eat The EU is what keeps the peace in Europe. Really, I guess NATO just sits there then? It is Article 5 of the Washington/North Atlantic Treaty that achieves that, not the EU.

It's a sort of brotherhood (even if siblings are sometimes mean to each other re. Greece) If a private individual did to another what the EU has done to Greece, there would be outcry. The EU is not a benign organisation. much as the PR would have you think so.

SylviaPoe I think the EU has nothing to gain by bankrupting the UK as they would then be unable to honor the contracts already signed/pay the money owed but they have nothing to gain in having the UK too powerful either as the UK will obviously be getting closer to the USA.

So if it is not in their best interests to bankrupt us, then to some extent they have to do what is in our interests as well as their own?

I have just come from reading Joseph Stiglitz's book on the Euro, and I have a lot of sympathy for the idea that EU institutions do not always work to the benefit of normal people, and I don't like Junker.

However, we knew that voting to leave the EU, based on a campaign of lies, and then going into negotiations completely unprepared would not work out well. Surely no one can be surprised. The idea that the UK can keep the benefits of EU membership, while not paying its way, is deluded. The sad thing is that while we have such a weak PM and government who don't know what they're doing, the opposition is so so weak, and makes TM look like Hercules

Scaryteacher what is the PR (sorry am not familiar with this acronym)?

So how is it going to work out then? What will happen?

I thought the Greeks wanted basic things like healthcare.

The Greeks overspent and overspent and voted for any happy arsehole who promised them a short working week, retirement at 55 and lots of state benefits without much in the way of taxes. And their government fudged the figures. Strangely the wheels fell off eventually.

Sylvia I keep refreshing the page in the hope someone will tell.
I don't know what will happen, I expect the economy will suffer a bit but the UK will eventually be OK, it's a strong country with hard working people.
For me, I am an EU citizen so I am leaving as the future is uncertain here.

The EU should stop being arsey?

Yeah they should follow May's lead, she's been a fucking delight on the subject.

genuine question....if we were a country that got more money out of the EU than we put in (like significant disparity) and were leaving it, would EU leaders be standing up and saying, "we'll carry on paying you the same amount once once you leave for the duration of the previous agreement?"

Barbarianmum, I'm not asking how the Greeks got into debt, but what they have asked for since the debt crisis began. The impression I have had from news reports is that much basic health care is now lacking in Greece.

Well, what exactly were you expecting? (Remainer here, btw).

perhaps some good will. But I think the first reply had the relative order of the interests of the EU correct.

The key thing to remember here is that the EUs first priority is the EU, then the governments of the members, then the citizens of the members.

Notice citizens of the EU is last, I would say a distant last to the former two. Forget about non-citizens like us.

This is why the EU is so unpopular in europe. The EU is more important than EU citizens. Witness the devastation on Greece, to save the euro.

BarbarianMum, and the Germans wanted someone to lend money to. At least they were bailed out. No moral hazard for them

This is why the EU is so unpopular in europe.

Unpopular? Nope.

eat PR=Public relations, the spin doctors, those who wrtie the EU press releases; those that leak details of a dinner to further their own agenda; those with Selmayr pulling their strings perhaps?
www.politico.eu/article/monster-at-the-berlaymont-martin-selmayr-european-commission-jean-claude-juncker/ if you don't know who Selmayr is]]

Some people are really desperate to believe that every other EU country looks longingly at Brexit and dreams of having a piece of that pie. Whereas the reality is that most of the EU is staring at Brexit Britain in utter bafflement. They have no idea why a country would want to commit an act of such self-harm.

I find this very frustrating.

The population of this country is being criticised for not being aware of the facts, and yet whenever I try to listen to perspectives on this, the majority of it is just hyperbole.

I mean, I'm none the wiser now as to whether popularity of the EU is declining, increasing or remaining static.

A quick google leads to stats indicating a sharp decline in popularity during 2016, but perhaps there are other stats?

How are we supposed to develop informed opinions on any of this if people don't refer to any facts.

It's like the Greeks wanting jam and more jam, what is that actually telling us about Greece's situation? Or are we just supposed to agree and not think about any of it?

Krimbler but yes. The V4 are none too fond of the Commission; neither is Greece; Denmark can't be too convinced as it keeps refusing to join the Euro; Schengen is in effect and then not there with some member states; I think Italy is pissed off with the lack of help with the migrant crisis, ditto Greece; some in the NL would cheerfully leave, as I suspect would some in France. The level of unemployment in some EU member states is shocking, and again, the new demands being made of Greece before the next bail out (which will go straight back to the French and Germans) would push more people into worse poverty.

They didnt give a shit about us before we left.

We were the most out voted nation in the EU.