AIBU to think that all mothers should have food and water on postnatal wards?

[JustineMumsnet]

Hello,

Today, we at MNHQ are launching a new campaign called Better Postnatal Care: Aftercare, not Afterthought.

Over the years, we’ve been struck by how many MNers have related pretty horrible experiences on postnatal wards. We’ve also seen lots of discussions about longer term aspects of postnatal care: help with breast or bottle feeding, mental health care for new mothers, wound care after difficult births, and physio for women who feel they need it (but rarely feel able to ask for it) - among other things.

So, towards the end of last year we decided to see if we could do something about it. We ran a big survey of Mumsnet users’ experiences of postnatal care, and some of the results were striking. (You can see more here.) Among those who stayed in hospital after giving birth - which was most new mums - many reported that it was sometimes difficult to access food, pain relief, drinking water and washing facilities. 61% had been unable to access food when they needed it; 45% had been unable to access pain relief when they needed it; 22% had been unable to access water when they needed it; and 19% had been unable to access washing facilities when they needed them.

So today, we are asking the major UK political parties to commit, in their manifestos for the general election, to making sure that women on postnatal wards always have access to the absolute basics: food, water, pain relief and washing facilities.

We’re also asking everyone (this means you!) to contribute ideas about how we can make postnatal wards ‘fit for purpose’. More midwives? A fridge full of sandwiches, fruit and water on every ward? Asking all visitors and patients to turn off noises on their phones and personal devices? Maternity support assistants? Welcome cards by every bed explaining how the ward works? Making sure that inpatients and their visitors use headphones if they’re watching TV? We’re after all your suggestions, no matter how small. We’ll also be asking for input from healthcare workers with frontline experience - so if you’re one of those, please do chip in.

This isn’t about going into battle with people who work in maternity services in the NHS. Most of you feel that overall, over the year or so post-birth, standards of postnatal care are good or OK. When asked what needs to change, many of you say you think there should be more staff. Some of you had very good experiences: if you look at the ‘Good Stuff’ heading on this page you’ll see some shout-outs to hospitals and services that MNers say are getting things right. So we know that it can be done. What we want to do is find out how these hospitals are managing to get it right, and see if the lessons can be transferred.

In the months to come, the campaign will look in more detail at things like infant feeding, traumatic births, postnatal mental health, and follow-up care for birth injuries.

Please get involved with the campaign. Here are some ways you can help.

And as ever - do let us know what you think!

Thanks

I just suggested a middle ground!

Look, here is what NHS England says about single-sex accommodation ( www.nhs.uk/NHSEngland/AboutNHSservices/NHShospitals/Pages/in-hospital.aspx ):

" Being in mixed-sex hospital accommodation can be difficult for some patients for a variety of personal and cultural reasons. All providers of NHS-funded care are expected to eliminate mixed-sex accommodation, except where it is in the overall best interests of the patient or reflects their personal choice.

While there are some circumstances where mixing can be justified, these are mainly confined to patients who need highly specialised care, such as the care given in critical care units. Find out about being detained under the Mental Health Act to learn more about this.

There is no justification for placing a patient in mixed-sex accommodation where this is not in the best overall interests of the patient and where better management, better facilities, or the removal of organisational constraints could have averted the situation. "

Women on postnatal wards should also have those rights. We are still patients.

The problem 53 is that your post gives them impression that the default position should be that partners cannot stay and women might have to justify their decision to have their partner there to get one of a limited number of spaces where this would be permitted. For many people like me who are more vulnerable due to previous traumatic experiences, that would have been awful. It was bad enough that staff kept asking me over and over again why I had had a section.

There's a way to ensure that lack of basics is never an issue. That's for everyone to not vote Conservative in the General Election. Simple

Yes 53 but your earlier post seemed quite condescending with your "MY PARTNER" comments.

I agree One and equally 53 there is a lot of evidence of why it is beneficial to have partners allowed to stay on post natal wards. We should not have to fight for this right.

The problem 53 is that your post gives them impression that the default position should be that partners cannot stay and women might have to justify their decision to have their partner there to get one of a limited number of spaces where this would be permitted.

That absolutely should be the default position - see the post above yours. It is recognised that mixed-sex wards are not acceptable. Women are only forced to put up with it because a) we're just women and b) it takes pressure off the midwives when partners can provide basic care.

For many people like me who are more vulnerable due to previous traumatic experiences, that would have been awful

Can't you empathise with women who have had past trauma like domestic violence and rape and don't want to be bleeding and barely able to walk on a ward with five strange men?

Have some compassion.

I agree One and equally 53 there is a lot of evidence of why it is beneficial to have partners allowed to stay on post natal wards. We should not have to fight for this right.

It's not a right. You don't have the right to force women to sleep next to your partner.

The default position should be the same as for all other wards: eliminate mixed-sex accommodation, except where it is in the overall best interests of the patient or reflects their personal choice. So yes, you can request to opt-in to it if it seems in your overall best interests or reflects your personal choice, but mixed-sex shouldn't be the default setup.

What's your suggested solution?

I have been a bit surprised at some of the attitudes towards some women on this thread. I would never dream of telling a woman she was being unreasonable for not wanting men on a ward with them but for some reason it seems to be acceptable to be somewhat condescending towards women who would feel vulnerable without their partners in a setting that alreasy often lacks the most basic of care and compassion? There's been some insinuation by some posters that we are somehow weak or not as capable?

Nice bit of hyperbole there Haggis

No one is sleeping next to my partner. No one will see my partner we are behind curtains. He can also not see them.

And it is a right. An important one that is acknowledged by many. If it wasn't a right I wouldn't be in many hospital policies.

I don't think you understand the definitions of hyperbole OR right.

So what's your solution, Cherries?

The thing that is really upsetting and frustrating is as above there is a massive double standard in your attitudes.

So women who are vulnerable and so don't want men around are more important than women who are vulnerable and need their partners around? It's ridiculous.

Haggis FFS One has already said she has suffered abuse hence her reluctance to be alone in a compromised position. Or is that not the "right" way for people to deal with abuse to you?

"Forcing women to sleep next to your partner"

Is a fucking ridiculous statement to make. Hyperbolic is exactly how I would define it.

53 I've already expressed my propowed suggestions for MN to read.

What are you even on about Haggis? If I go to a hospital, which states in its policy that I am allowed to have my partner stay overnight with me, then of course it is my legal right to have him there.

Fgs an important debate about women's rights and needs being derailed about men. Women should not need to sleep in the same room as men they don't know. The reasons for this are patently obvious. If you don't like the possibility that you might not be able to have your partner there then campaign for private ensuite rooms to enable this without it impacting negatively on the other patients. It's just swapping one lot of shit circumstances for another.

I think it should be the same as for the rest of the NHS, Cherries. If it's in a woman's best interest to have her partner there, then she should be supported in that in a way that does not violate the right of others to single-sex accommodation - e.g., by sharing a bay with other women who also have partners. But we should not throw the right to single-sex accommodation out of the window just because it's postnatal.

What's your solution?

'Is a fucking ridiculous statement to make.'

How is it ridiculous? The partner is feet away from a patient. And plenty of other women who've been assaulted or abused find that unacceptable. They won't want to share sleeping space, facilities, etc with strange men who are not patients.

You say you don't care about anyone but your family, well, others care about theirs, too, and don't want to sleep in the same room with a bunch of strange blokes.

Cherries - sorry, it's a long thread - I must have missed them.

It's not derailing, it is still about a woman's right to have her partner with her. I hate all this bullshit being thrown around, just because men are involved does not mean it is some awful antifeminist sentiment. But it will always get dragged into it.

In other words, it is being discussed because it is pertinent to the wider discussion of post natal care and changes women would like to see.

Maybe what we need is doulas on the postnatal wards - people who are there to support and advocate for women during and after childbirth, who have much more of a caring role.

how about having enough midwifes and nursing staff to provide adequate care!

And absolutely YES to campaignng for single rooms. Can't be done overnight but can be done in the long term.

I gave birth in a new hospital. All single rooms for adults!... Unless you were on the postnatal ward, in which case you were sharing 6-bed bays. Sigh.

I'm sorry expat but in that context it is a ridiculous thing to say. My partner and everyone else's is not there to invade anyone else's space, they are there to provide support to their partner at their partners' most vulnerable moments, in the face of incredibly lacking health care. They are dealing with the lack of space and resource as much as we are. I'm not even saying that there shouldn't be plenty of separate space for women who don't want partners around, and obviously ideally everyone would have completely separate and safe spaces. But I don't think it's right or accurate or fair at all to use that kind of triggering language in the context, it disgusted me actually.

But isn't @expatinscotland right that a woman who has been assaulted would feel very scared and uncomfortable having to sleep with a strange man only feet away, with nothing more than a curtain to protect them?

i wouldn't feel comfortable sleeping with several strange men in the same room as me, and I have never been assaulted.

My partner and everyone else's is not there to invade anyone else's space, they are there to provide support to their partner at their partners' most vulnerable moments

Your partner, yes. Everyone's partner, no. All sorts of men have children, sad to say.

And whilst you know that your partner is only here to support you, to the other women in the bay with you, he is a stranger, and they will have no idea if he is nice, thoughtful and no threat to anyone, or if he is loud, insensitive, violent, abusive or a real threat.