AIBU to think that all mothers should have food and water on postnatal wards?

[JustineMumsnet]

Hello,

Today, we at MNHQ are launching a new campaign called Better Postnatal Care: Aftercare, not Afterthought.

Over the years, we’ve been struck by how many MNers have related pretty horrible experiences on postnatal wards. We’ve also seen lots of discussions about longer term aspects of postnatal care: help with breast or bottle feeding, mental health care for new mothers, wound care after difficult births, and physio for women who feel they need it (but rarely feel able to ask for it) - among other things.

So, towards the end of last year we decided to see if we could do something about it. We ran a big survey of Mumsnet users’ experiences of postnatal care, and some of the results were striking. (You can see more here.) Among those who stayed in hospital after giving birth - which was most new mums - many reported that it was sometimes difficult to access food, pain relief, drinking water and washing facilities. 61% had been unable to access food when they needed it; 45% had been unable to access pain relief when they needed it; 22% had been unable to access water when they needed it; and 19% had been unable to access washing facilities when they needed them.

So today, we are asking the major UK political parties to commit, in their manifestos for the general election, to making sure that women on postnatal wards always have access to the absolute basics: food, water, pain relief and washing facilities.

We’re also asking everyone (this means you!) to contribute ideas about how we can make postnatal wards ‘fit for purpose’. More midwives? A fridge full of sandwiches, fruit and water on every ward? Asking all visitors and patients to turn off noises on their phones and personal devices? Maternity support assistants? Welcome cards by every bed explaining how the ward works? Making sure that inpatients and their visitors use headphones if they’re watching TV? We’re after all your suggestions, no matter how small. We’ll also be asking for input from healthcare workers with frontline experience - so if you’re one of those, please do chip in.

This isn’t about going into battle with people who work in maternity services in the NHS. Most of you feel that overall, over the year or so post-birth, standards of postnatal care are good or OK. When asked what needs to change, many of you say you think there should be more staff. Some of you had very good experiences: if you look at the ‘Good Stuff’ heading on this page you’ll see some shout-outs to hospitals and services that MNers say are getting things right. So we know that it can be done. What we want to do is find out how these hospitals are managing to get it right, and see if the lessons can be transferred.

In the months to come, the campaign will look in more detail at things like infant feeding, traumatic births, postnatal mental health, and follow-up care for birth injuries.

Please get involved with the campaign. Here are some ways you can help.

And as ever - do let us know what you think!

Thanks

Maybe what we need is doulas on the postnatal wards - people who are there to support and advocate for women during and after childbirth, who have much more of a caring role.

We need enough staff and for post natal care to be taken seriously.

I guess it's a self preservation thing for me. I know others are more selfless but given the awful treatment I got both in labour and after, and the ridiculous levels of noise from the women on the ward, I honestly only care about my own little family now. I honestly wish we could have post natal care at home more or in some kind of home from home setting like a MLU but just for post natal women. It obviously won't happen but I just want to be in a place where I am not disturbed for negative things but ignored for stuff I need, and to have my little family around us without worrying about others or stressing they will be sent home. I pray I am well after this pregnancy like I was last time as honestly 12 hours in that place was more than enough. I wonder how much it can actually change? This thread made me feel so positive earlier on because everyone can agree on the basics being provided better, I hope lots of positive this do come from this campaign for everyone.

"No partners overnight in shared bays.
*
Partners only allowed where there are private rooms available.

Private rooms to be allocated based on need (except of course in hospitals where all rooms are private rooms).*

That way there are options for everybody."

Except this doesn't give options for everybody, because often there won't be private rooms available for the women who need their partners with them. This won't work unless sufficient private rooms are available for everybody to have the choice, in which case they may as well make all the rooms private (as they should have done in the first place).

In the hospital where I gave birth recently partners were allowed to stay, and every single woman on the ward chose for her partner stay with her.

Ekphrasis- the article you posted describes my dd's birth to the letter. I am in floods after reading it. Here I still am, six years after the birth of my daughter, without the time or funds to seek out the help I need to put my insides back together. It's just made me realise how much I still need help and am suffering the after-effects, and what a dark abyss I was in directly post-birth. It's no wonder.
I hear, but can't state as fact, that new mothers receive immediate post-natal Physio therapy in France. It should be available, without a fight. I had to pay for counselling as the NHS waiting time was 8 weeks. I don't think I would have survived 8 weeks without some kind of counselling support and still feel that i need it now.

I've also been reading a few thread about it and for every woman who says they feel uncomfortable there is ano equal number of women who feel that it is necessary for partners to be able to stay, so I don't think it's accurate to say that women wanting partners to be there are in a minority. If anything surely it's the other way around as most hospitals do seem to let partners stay overnight?

Oh I see from this article that NHS hospitals do allow overnight stay, so I guess I can relax. Genuinely didn't know it was the standard and thought it could change by hospital

www.telegraph.co.uk/women/mother-tongue/11830210/New-dads-should-always-be-able-to-sleep-overnight-in-maternity-wards.html

I'm so terrified by these post natal threads that the only thing getting me through is knowing that when I give birth (37 weeks pregnant now) my husband will be there with me. Hearing about women in agony, unable to access food or pain relief, the state of the bathrooms and the general level of 'care' so many have experienced have made me consider if just giving birth in the car park would be bloody better!

I can't believe that in 2017, sexism and misogyny are so rampant and insidious that a campaign for women to be given a sodding sandwich and glass of water after giving birth is necessary.

I can only hope that a) things improve as a result of women ignoring the taboo of saying that everything pregnancy and childbirth related is magic and rainbows and demanding change and b) we look back on this time where recovering mothers were treated as inconveniences, left to fend for themselves in sub standard conditions and denied access to basic care, and shudder

Best of luck astorm , you will be okay! Do your best to be prepared, pack proper food and drink for both of you and maybe some over the counter painkillers. Lots of maternity pad's and baby blanket to avoid the bed getting too mucky in case it's can't be changed for a while. The standard of care does seem poor overall but a lot of the complaints areally about food and drink, so stocking up will make that element much better for you :)

Are not are really

Sorry Cherries, I misinformed you in that case. I also thought it varied between hospitals but glad to hear it is a consistent policy across the whole country.

Partners overnight does vary by hospitals, and it isn't a national policy. Where I live now there's three hospitals - one has partners 24/7, one has partners daytime only, one was trialling overnight partners but I think isn't now. Where I gave birth three years ago, there were two hospitals and neither allowed overnight partners.

Also, we can't draw conclusions about what women would like from seeing how many of them do have partners stay. I hate the idea of 24/7 partners, but if I didn't have a choice about it I'd want mine to stay rather than share a ward on my own with everyone else's. Likewise a lot of women don't have the choice of partners staying - single parents, partners looking after older DC, partners away.

Women shouldn't have to share ward bays with men they don't know overnight. This is the general policy for NHS wards - it shouldn't be different for postnatal.

Nono not your fault One, I thought that was the case myself. Interesting that it still varies, I must find out what the ones near me do!

When I was on the postnatal ward (way too often after having DD), other peoples partners were very well behaved.
They:

• fetched food/water for their partner
• fetched the breast pump (at any time day or night) as required
• passed the baby to and from cot if partner had c section
• changed nappies
• made up bottles (if appropriate)

Unless we suddenly employ many more staff to cover these jobs, then we need to allow partners onto the ward (though I sent mine home after visiting hours as I didn't want to have to entertain him and wanted some peace and quiet).

Maybe if needed in some larger hospitals there could be a ward that doesn't allow partners for those who are DV victims or really don't want to to be on a ward with partners?

I did feel sorry for one lady whose I think husband's side grandparents came every day and they didn't seem to talk to her and she did look like she was feeling stressed with the visitors.

Another lady kept having lots of loud visited over for way longer than visiting hours permitted (and even brought her hair straighteners ). I wish that her visitors were told to go home earlier.

Thank you @CherriesInTheSnow - bag is packed full of snacks, drinks, paracetamol and maternity pads so I'm hoping it should be ok!

I was on the PN ward for two and a half days after birth. The husband of the woman next to me was one of the reasons I begged to go home when I did, before I was really feeling ready. He wasn't abusive or anything - he was just loud loud loud, and liked to hold court for all the staff. Any time midwives or HCAs came in he had to collar them for a 'chat'. He did bugger all to help his wife, he regularly brought in his older child and let her run round the ward unattended, he said things like "look at that REALLY TINY baby! It's SOOOO small!" at another baby on the bay (who was born premature and had health issues), and he NEVER stopped talking. Loudly.

If he'd been allowed to stay all night as well as all day, I'd probably have crawled out of there dragging my drip and catheter behind me.

Many, many, MANY women don't want to stay overnight in wards with other people's partners, who are total strangers to them. This is recognised elsewhere in the NHS - we have single-sex wards for a reason. Women who are on the postnatal ward are still patients, and should be entitled to the same standards of care, dignity and privacy as if they were on any other ward.

And yes, clearly there are women who do feel unable to cope without their partners ere no matter how good the care is - just like there are women on other wards who feel that way. They should be accommodated as well - just like on other wards. But what we should not be doing is saying "well I wanted MY partner to stay, and that would have helped ME deal with the crap care, so partners should be allowed everywhere and anywhere and tough shit to the rest of you." We need solutions that work for everyone.

But your discomfort was aimed at his loudness - surely its this that is the problem with PN wards and can be addressed while letting partners stay? There were women next to me chatting loudly on the phone about all manner of things I didn't want to hear about. And she argued loudly and persistently with a midwife saying she should have woken her baby to feed as 5 or 6 hours is too long for a newborn to go without food. But obviously we can't ban anyone who annoys us, the answer is to have a better atmosphere on wards, policed by staff.

That's what I've been saying this whole thread. That a middle ground needs to be found if it bothers women so much.

And equally you can't say well I was next to an annoying man that was too loud and so NO partners should be allowed to stat the night EVER....

No, it wasn't just his loudness, Cherries. It was the monopolising of staff attention, letting older DC run riot, being an arse about the tiny baby and upsetting its mother, and to start with, sitting with his chair pushed back so far through the curtains he was practically on my lap. (I though this was just the tiny space, but it turns out he liked to sit back with his feet up on the bed.)

I didn't much like learning to breastfeed and having conversations with midwives about vaginal bleeding 2 feet away from him, either. Or for that matter in front of the (perfectly lovely, but still a total stranger to me) husband of the woman on the other side. And no, I would not have felt safe sleeping in a ward with a bunch of blokes I did not know when in such a vulnerable position. That really isn't an unusual way to feel - again, this is why he NHS has single-sex wards.

Cherries, you've already said that all you can really think about here is what you and your family want and need, not what other women want and need. Kudos for being so honest about how you're feeling. But this is a campaign for better postnatal care for everyone.

And better postnatal care for everyone won't be achieved by preventing women having their partners with them if they want or need to. As Cherries has said repeatedly, a way to accommodate choice needs to be found so that nobody is forcing their preference on others.

Oneiroi, I literally just said that women who feel they can't cope without partners there should be accommodated, just like they would (and should) be on other wards. I haven't at any point suggested 'banning' partners.

I would be fine with something like this:

• shared ward, multiple bays (as most PN wards are at present)
• women who really need their partners there overnight go in one of those bays, shared with over women & partners
• women who want their partners there overnight (rather than need it as an MH/sick baby/whatever issue) can express it as a preference, and will be given a space in a women-with-partners bay if there is a space there
• women who don't want to share with other people's partners get single-sex accommodation just like eye would on other NHS wards, without having to argue for it.

Exactly One

And your post is dismissive which is what my point was. It's not just that people wold prefer their partners with them, it's that we rely on them emotionally and practically, for the sake of our mental and physical wellbeing. As well as my personal belief that it is important and forward thinking to have men involved at birth, we don't live in the 50s where men sit around waiting drinking whiskey while the women are carted off to give birth alone. It's not right.

And let me elaborate on my comment. What I mean is, after hearing these reactions then I have to say I am glad things are the way they are, because if people are unwilling to have a midden ground then after the terrible experience I and so many other women received then I would much rather that women who are left alone and vulnerable in the middle of the night have someone to rely on. You admitted yourself your stay would be easier has your partner been there so it's not surprising that many of us wold take the potential irritation of other women overy have a positive support network around us at such a vulnerable time. If it really is to be one or the other, then I would choose to have him there every time regardless.