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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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AIBU to think that all mothers should have food and water on postnatal wards?

819 replies

JustineMumsnet · 04/05/2017 07:45

Hello,

Today, we at MNHQ are launching a new campaign called Better Postnatal Care: Aftercare, not Afterthought.

Over the years, we’ve been struck by how many MNers have related pretty horrible experiences on postnatal wards. We’ve also seen lots of discussions about longer term aspects of postnatal care: help with breast or bottle feeding, mental health care for new mothers, wound care after difficult births, and physio for women who feel they need it (but rarely feel able to ask for it) - among other things.

So, towards the end of last year we decided to see if we could do something about it. We ran a big survey of Mumsnet users’ experiences of postnatal care, and some of the results were striking. (You can see more here.) Among those who stayed in hospital after giving birth - which was most new mums - many reported that it was sometimes difficult to access food, pain relief, drinking water and washing facilities. 61% had been unable to access food when they needed it; 45% had been unable to access pain relief when they needed it; 22% had been unable to access water when they needed it; and 19% had been unable to access washing facilities when they needed them.

So today, we are asking the major UK political parties to commit, in their manifestos for the general election, to making sure that women on postnatal wards always have access to the absolute basics: food, water, pain relief and washing facilities.

We’re also asking everyone (this means you!) to contribute ideas about how we can make postnatal wards ‘fit for purpose’. More midwives? A fridge full of sandwiches, fruit and water on every ward? Asking all visitors and patients to turn off noises on their phones and personal devices? Maternity support assistants? Welcome cards by every bed explaining how the ward works? Making sure that inpatients and their visitors use headphones if they’re watching TV? We’re after all your suggestions, no matter how small. We’ll also be asking for input from healthcare workers with frontline experience - so if you’re one of those, please do chip in.

This isn’t about going into battle with people who work in maternity services in the NHS. Most of you feel that overall, over the year or so post-birth, standards of postnatal care are good or OK. When asked what needs to change, many of you say you think there should be more staff. Some of you had very good experiences: if you look at the ‘Good Stuff’ heading on this page you’ll see some shout-outs to hospitals and services that MNers say are getting things right. So we know that it can be done. What we want to do is find out how these hospitals are managing to get it right, and see if the lessons can be transferred.

In the months to come, the campaign will look in more detail at things like infant feeding, traumatic births, postnatal mental health, and follow-up care for birth injuries.

Please get involved with the campaign. Here are some ways you can help.

And as ever - do let us know what you think!

Thanks

OP posts:
StarHeartDiamond · 11/05/2017 11:09

Worship that's terrible re the washing. Although our mat wards are very stretched, they did do personal care very well. I can't grumble about it. On all three of my cs's, a mw came early to change my pads and clean me up and then after a cup of tea helped me to the showers, which were clean.

The day staff situation was better than the night staff situation.

StarHeartDiamond · 11/05/2017 11:14

Food was shocking though. First time there was a hot plate counter with hot food to choose from. Over cooked but fine.

Second time, policy had changed. The system was line up, choose a meal that was already stuck to a polystyrene plate (mostly potato with cheese or pizza) and wait for it to be individually nuked in the microwave. Obviously it took ages to get through the queue as most meals took ages to heat up, one at a time, as only one microwave for the whole maternity ward (this is a major hosp not a cottage hosp) and then the cheese was melted to the polystyrene plate. It was truly inedible, not just not good.

badgersnotincluded · 11/05/2017 15:56

I'm due to give birth in a few months and this is shocking reading. I've looked online at my hospital's policy on partners and visitors and partners are listed as 8am- midnight with visitors hours at 3pm-8pm. I cheered up a little as I'm deeply uncomfortable at the thought of having strange men around me with no privacy.

I asked my midwife yesterday if the hospital policy was adhered to and she said no. Partners can stay. And visitors are allowed in 'whenever, really'.

I can prepare for the water/food/pain relief issues by being proactive. The NHS is stretched enough, I can supply my own food and not grumble.

However I am deeply shocked that women's needs are disregarded to this degree. Lying in a pool of your own sick, blood or waste with no pain relief is something you could only expect in a temporary hospital in a war zone. I thought that squeezing a baby out of my vagina would be the worst part but it seems I could be proven wrong.

I also can't help but agree with PP that if men had to endure childbirth, postnatal wards would not be in such bad shape.

I'm so sorry for all the women who have commented here with their negative experiences and I'm thankful that you've shared your stories so that this campaign can hopefully gain some traction, and also that I can better prepare myself for what lies ahead.

Polarbearflavour · 11/05/2017 16:14

I was a nurse and no patient after surgery would be left alone in sodden and bloody bedding. Yet a CS is "just" a CS when it's actually major surgery? And often sent home within 24 hours? It's shocking and wrong.

There should be more healthcare assistants/maternity support workers on the wards to help with washing, bed changing, making sure patients have food and water, helping them care for their babies.

One hospital Trust I worked at had a policy that the agency cleaners couldn't clean bodily fluids so the healthcare assistants ended up mopping the floors and cleaning the loos rather than nursing patients.

Comments that ladies are asked to clean the baths after birth just make me go Shock

somedogsdo · 11/05/2017 16:33

I think it's about compassion
And Realising how vulnerable women can feel at this time.
I had long labour with epidural. Had to unlatch my son in middle of his first feed because the room was needed - fair enough. But was then wheeled on to post natal ward late in eve, disorientated, legs not working and DH told he couldn't stay. He managed to find me a quick drink before he was bundled out. But I hadn't eaten anything for over 24 hours, didn't know where the loo was and felt totally alone and terrified. Thinking back it doesn't sound like such a big deal but I still remember how alone and out of control I felt. I only needed a friendly face to pop in and give me a basic orientation on what was what and bring me something to eat - it would have made all the difference.
I understand the medical staff are really busy but I'd gladly volunteer to help women out on wards to free up time for the nurses.

somedogsdo · 11/05/2017 17:09

Be interested to see what any nurses/midwives feel about there being a few volunteers on post natal wards to help with orientation/food/drink. Would it be helpful from a staff point of view or a make life harder? I would certainly have welcomed it myself, but be good to get views from any medical staff.

Polarbearflavour · 11/05/2017 18:09

I did voluntary work on a maternity ward when I was 18 and doing A-levels and applying to uni for midwifery/nursing courses.

I took around the tea trolley, made sure ladies stuck in bed got meals, did ward clerk stuff, answered the door buzzer, ran errands to pharmacy and other wards and changed beds. This left the staff to get on with other patient care tasks.

Although to be fair, they did seem to be staffed okay with a couple of nursing auxiliaries showing mums how to wash and feed, care for the immobile ladies etc.

That was the GWH in Swindon over a decade ago.

TooStressyForMyOwnGood · 11/05/2017 18:21

somedogsdo, I think that would be hugely helpful (HCP but not a midwife).

NotYetAYummyMummy · 12/05/2017 09:12

In contrast to a lot of experiences here, mine was not too bad. Flowers for those that have suffered.

I've had 2 CSs both at the same hospital. Food was brought to us after selecting from a menu card earlier in the day. This included breakfast. Plenty of water available too. I was fortunate enough to have my own room both times and my partner was able to stay - more important for me the first time as a long labour followed by emergency CS left me shattered and in a lot of pain. I hadn't slept for 3 nights so desperately needed time to rest while DH could comfort / change the little one.

The main issue I had was around analgesia. As above, my first CS was preceded by induction and a long labour (including about 12 hours on synto). I got to almost full dilatation before CS, with oral paracetamol for pain relief (my choice and not a boast - more to illustrate that pain is a very subjective thing and varies hugely among women undergoing the same or similar processes). On PN, I found it difficult to convince the nurses I had pain that required more than paracetamol- I struggled more with the pain postnatally than when in labour. They were very reluctant to give me anything stronger until I almost begged. I also had to have a relative buy senna for me after asking for several days in a row and failing to get any laxatives. I would strongly advise a packet in the maternity bag (and indeed did exactly that the second time round to avoid constipation).

As a HCP (not in obstetrics), I find it incredible that pain is so minimised after what is major abdominal surgery. With a few exceptions, we are taught to take patients' experiences of pain at face value i.e. If they say they are still in pain, they need stronger painkillers. This works across all areas of medicine and I cannot see why maternity should be any different.

After kicking up a fuss I was finally discharged with diclofenac (5 days in as DC1 had jaundice requiring phototherapy). The second time round I was out in 24 hours. Significantly less pain as elective section so no labour beforehand - this was the crucial difference for me. No issues with pain relief the second time except that they couldn't understand why I wanted diclofenac not ibuprofen (which I have an intolerance to). In the end I left with just paracetamol.

I feel incredibly fortunate to not have had any other issues given some experiences highlighted here. Thank you Mumsnet for picking this area for a campaign - it is desperately needed.

RowanMumsnet · 16/05/2017 16:16

@NewBallsPlease00

I had 2 children years apart at one v large hospital and a midwife led unit afterwards and had nothing but positive experiences as did friends at same place. Jug on water on every bedside table. Day room and kitchen with hot drinks and bread to have toast at any time. Sighs up asking for considerate mobile phone use. Caring staff. Honest and realistic times given eg someone will be here but will be 2 hours etc. Staff who genuinely seemed to care for all the babies. Good food with fruit and veg. Fruit in a bowl at nurse station. No wait on meds. Good experiences (and it was a few days for each) Well done it was a great experience. Mumsnet I won't name here but happy to by dm

Hi NewBalls - bit late to this, but yes please, that would be great - thank you

SooticasDream · 17/05/2017 12:03

Better mental health support on the ward I was on would of been hugely beneficial. After 4 days on ward I think it really added to my PND.
Allowing my husband to stay. I gave birth just before midnight & he was only allowed to stay an hour after. I was alone with none checking on me. I had had a traumatic birth & looking back the last thing I needed was to be left alone.
A quick debrief of the birth would of been beneficial too.

Dimmed lights on the ward, my son & I were both woken at 5am the following day, to another mum & baby coming in. Main lights put on, loud talking by staff etc. I had only just managed to get hin to sleep an hour previous.
Cots placed much closer to beds, skin to skin encouraged more, staff having better breastfeeding knowledge (I was told to stop winding my son as Bf babies don't need winding), the ability to charge your mobile phone, wards being more homely & less hospital like.
Also having to tell the catering staff to not take away my dinner as I had been busy with my son - they had assumed I didn't want it. & I don't know anyone who likes toast so cold you can't spread the butter.

Cagliostro · 17/05/2017 12:40

On the back of this thread I had a chat to my MW about the PN ward today. She told me there's an online tour of the ward with the rules etc so will look that up, there are also a few private rooms which can be paid for (if any are free of course). I am so scared about being on a busy ward that I think for me it will be worth the cost.

GaelicSiog · 17/05/2017 13:55

The big thing that's come out of this thread for me is the number saying partners staying should be priority- partners not being allowed to stay would have been my number one priority request when I had DD. Not sure what the solution to that is, private rooms for the ones who don't want partners hanging around, maybe?

maamalady · 19/05/2017 17:32

I absolutely agree with posters saying that partners should not be allowed overnight in postnatal wards. Private rooms yes, so long as they don't leave their rooms (and security are there to ensure this is the case), but absolutely not otherwise. My hospital allows partners 8am-10pm, and other visitors (maximum of two per patient, excluding the partner) 5-7pm. There was an informal grace period when you first came into postnatal of about half an hour or so, so your partner could settle you in, which worked pretty well.

I had an unpleasant time on postnatal with both mine. DD1 I had an induction, epidural, full dilatation and then EMCS 22 hours after start of labour, five hours on a gloriously empty recovery ward where I was given toast (first food in about 40 hours). Then into postnatal at 3am, very little sleep, got dirty looks from the midwife when I buzzed for help changing nappy - I was catheterised, exhausted, clueless, less than six hours since major surgery, but apparently I should have been managing on my own. Then fed DD, had to buzz again for another dirty nappy and got properly told off that time (same midwife). The showers were clean but shabby, toilet had overflowing "sanitary" bin. When my catheter was removed the tube dripped urine over my bedsheets; the midwife dismissed this with "get someone to change them". I had no idea who to ask, and ended up staying in pissy sheets for my whole stay. I ate nothing other than what DH brought in, and it didn't occur to me either as I was in a total daze. Food didn't come into my head until I had my wound checked, and was asked if my bowels had moved - on a negative response the doctor then asked if I'd eaten, and I only then realised it was mid afternoon on a Wednesday, and I'd had nothing aside from a piece of toast since the Monday evening. It took us forever to get discharged, no-one was available to do paperwork until about 7pm, having requested to leave first thing in the morning.

Two years later with DD2 I had undiagnosed antenatal depression, my community midwife hadn't been interested when I tried to tell her, and no-one else seemed bothered. ELCS, DD2 screamed the place down for hours, DH and I got told off in recovery because "babies don't cry for no reason" - she did, and continued to do so for several months. As with DD1 we spent two nights on postnatal, DD2 and I crying for much of that time. Of those two nights a midwife looked in on us once - she was lovely, but dear god I could have done with more help, more often. I was brought toast for breakfast my first morning in but not my second - no idea why there was a difference. There were cards displaying the meals available for each day (no ordering, you just queued up), none of which appealed (school dinner stodge which smelled awful when my neighbouring patients had theirs) and I couldn't muster the wherewithal to hobble all the way down the corridor to fetch it in any case. Again, I ate nothing other than what DH brought me (excepting that one breakfast), and no-one checked that I was eating. There had at least been improvement in the ward: 4 rather than 5 women per bay, and new bathrooms, which were spotless. No-one checked on how we were doing with feeding - it was assumed that as I'd breastfed DD1 for a year, I'd be okay with DD2. I was, but you'd have thought her (and my) near-constant crying would have got some attention.

On both occasions there was a communal kitchen with toaster, bread, etc. On both occasions I didn't set foot in it except to watch the discharge video just before I left. No food was brought to me aside from breakfast once. Water was brought on request, but I had my own bottle as well as the hospital jug filled by DH before he left for the night.

On both occasions I was too immobile/sore to reach my baby from the cot, so I coslept with them in my bed. A previous poster mentioned a bassinet that could swing over the bed like a dinner tray - that would have been amazing, as would a sidecar cot.

On both occasions I felt desperately uncomfortable with the heat. DD1 was born in a heatwave, and the heating was still on in postnatal, it was beyond awful. I was so grateful DD2 was born in spring with cooler weather.

With DD2 I had quite severe depression - I was suicidal before her birth and for the best part of a year after. The hideous experience in postnatal didn't help. A bit of kindness would have gone a very long way, as would a meal or two.

Thanks for running this campaign, MNHQ. It's disgraceful that's it's necessary. I had deeply unpleasant experiences on the postnatal ward, and yet I seem to have had a better time than many. Food, drink, and care are the bare minimum required of a hospital, it is awful that so many are failing women so badly.

BoudiccasHare · 22/05/2017 10:10

Re. Partners being allowed to stay overnight, I had a difficult labour that culminated in an EMCS late at night. By the time I was moved from the recovery room it was approx. 3am. They wheeled me and baby through to the postnatal ward and told my husband he was not allowed to come into the ward with us as it was policy for partners not to be able to stay. I left him at the door.
When I was put into the bay with others I was left. My bags weren't passed to me, nothing was put in a way that I could reach. I had to ring my bell countless times overnight and wait a while for anyone to come and pass me things that I would have thought would have been provided. Had my husband been allowed to sit with me for the rest of the night (visiting began at 8am anyway!) he could have reached everything for me and I wouldn't have felt so abandoned and alone.

The wards are no place to recover. I was fortunate in that I didn't struggle too much after the C section once I was up and about, but you could tell the staff were run ragged. The days weren't too bad but the nights were awful. Noise from other mums - chatting on phones, leaving babies to cry, one of them kept setting the alarms in the toilets off smoking, lights on and off. By the second night I honestly couldn't have stayed there another minute. I do think that most of the problem for me was other mums, and not being able to get hold of staff (due to how busy they are, not unwillingness!!) to get help.

coldcanary · 22/05/2017 10:35

This has got me thinking about my birth experiences. First time was great apart from the food (16 years ago), it was served up in a different room at the end of a long corridor, nice enough and always hot but we all ended up shuffling along to this room 3 times a day. Apart from that the staff were wonderful and the care was fantastic. So obviously it got shut down and merged into a spangly new maternity unit shortly afterwards.
Next birth at this new maternity unit. The post natal staff couldn't give a shit frankly. It felt like none of them wanted to be their or particularly liked women. Awful food (however it was delivered to me directly), no water. DH stocked me up on bottles of juice and snacks in the end. sheets left dirty despite me asking for one so I could change it myself after a particularly large meconium filled nappy and I was treated like a naughty child by the breastfeeding 'counsellor' who barged into my room late one night and tried to force my nipple into DD's mouth while I was trying to establish feeding. I complained about her in the end, she was a bully tbh.
Final birth was at home. Utter bliss!
The one thing I would want is for women to be treated like fully grown adults with minds, needs and feelings of their own rather than needy children who don't know what they want.

GaelicSiog · 22/05/2017 10:42

That's where I think the care on the ward needs to step up though. It isn't a partner's job to do all that on the ward, plenty of women go in without partners. And the presence of partners overnight can be distressing for abuse victims.

BohemianRaspberry · 05/06/2017 20:54

Don't know if this has been said but if your baby is on the NICU then do not leave a new mother on a post natal ward surrounded by women who have their babies. It is hell.
Having a HCA doing a regular round checking all mums on a post natal ward have access to food, water, have had medication etc.
Kindness. A little compliment here and there would have made a world of difference to my stay.
It also seems incredibly unfair that those who have complication free births in the birth centre/MLU units have their partners staying with them whereas those who have had concerns or complications often have their partners banished outside visiting hours.
An anonymous reporting system for other mothers on the ward if they are worried over someone else in the ward. The lady in the bed next to mine was really struggling and crying quietly a lot but no one seemed to notice.

BohemianRaspberry · 05/06/2017 21:04

Oh and being very strict on visitors using the facilities! When I was there with ds (who was in sbcu) there was a male partner using the shower and someone's mum (baby's grandma) helping herself to a large plate of breakfast that she polished off in the visitors room with no eyelid batted from staff

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