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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

About DPs ex?

95 replies

TrudyBell · 02/05/2017 15:03

We've been together 3 years

He has a successful business and I earn a good amount. We pay 50/50 bills and have our own spending money. Pay 50/50 for holidays etc. It roughly works out the same. We are comfortable money wise.

His ex has 4 children, 1 is his (the youngest) she is 4. I'm not the OW but we got together a few mths after they split.

Ex works 16 hrs a week. As far as DP has told me she does admin work. The DD goes to a nursery (I've never been or seen it).

All of DPs accounts are at home after the tax year. They were on our shared desk and I had a quick flick through them. I have no idea really what he makes (rough idea as it's similar to me).

On his accounts he has her employed by him for 16 hrs minimum wage a week as an administrator . I asked him wtf?

Turns out she doesn't actually work for him at all, he pays her for doing nothing so she can get working tax credits without having to actually go to work. His argument is that they didn't want to put DD in childcare, she has 4 DC (and he's still close to the other 3) and he feels bad for leaving her with the baby.

I can't quite actually believe it. He said it's not really my business what his business does as long as he's paying what he should be into the bills and we are comfortable so what does it matter. He didn't tell me because I would "kick off".

AIBU?!

OP posts:

Trifleorbust · 02/05/2017 20:19

It's definitely illegal. Are you going to report him?

Nanna50 · 02/05/2017 20:22

On the face of it she is committing benefit and tax credit fraud, he is enabling this. She declares to HMRC that she works 16 hours to receive working tax credit. She also claims housing and council tax benefit, otherwise the benefit cap wouldn't be an issue. All of this is paid in addition to earnings and maintainance.

However it is up to the employer how much work an employee does or doesn't do and there are a lot of people paid for doing almost fuck all. Also there is no way either HMRC or the Local Authority have the will or resources to pursue it.

If there is anything to pursue as this set up happens a lot in business. This was no doubt set up before you met and it's his choice.

I would be royally pissed off if I discovered my OH was doing this and didn't mention it, but that is more of a trust issue as we have never had the mind set of separate income and always discuss outgoings of a few grand before spending.

Who does do his admin?

Trifleorbust · 02/05/2017 20:26

Isn't HE committing tax fraud. He is paying someone for a job that doesn't exist, so presumably not paying tax on that portion of his own income.

DontBeASalmon · 02/05/2017 20:26

If an employer can be prosecuted for employees doing nothing, then access to this forum will be blocked from many companies

Sayhellotothelittlefella · 02/05/2017 20:28

It's fraud. It doesn't matter if you agree or not. They are committing tax fraud and benefit fraud. Just because some of you think it's harmless doesn't make it any less legal- Sheesh!

Trifleorbust · 02/05/2017 20:31

The employer isn't committing fraud because the employee does nothing. They are committing fraud because they KNOW the employee does nothing, because no responsibilities or work was ever given. It is totally illegal. If the OP wants to report the ex then I think she has to report her DP too.

DontBeASalmon · 02/05/2017 20:41

I do know what you are saying, and i know the legality. I just hope that at worst she is reading this thread and putting some paperwork on her desk at home to justify her salary if she ever was investigated.

It's ridiculous if you can't employ and pay someone as you see fit, as long as everything is legal. They are not doing anything wrong or hurting anyone or the system. People are just jealous!

Trifleorbust · 02/05/2017 20:48

DontBeASalmon

It isn't ridiculous. That people pay the correct tax is a proportionate aim. If I can employ any number of people in fictional 'jobs' I can avoid my own taxes by calling their salaries 'business costs' when I am actually doing something else with that money, i.e. giving it to family members. It is illegal for good reason.

That being said, I am not a big reporter of all minor crime. I would be more worried about the lying.

PyongyangKipperbang · 02/05/2017 21:34

FFS will people stop banging on about benefit fraud.

SHE ISNT COMMITTING BENEFIT FRAUD!

She is employed by him and paid for 16 hours a week. She has a job. Whether she spends those hours in a sweatshop or getting her hair done is between her and her employer. She would get the same money if she was employed by him or Tesco or the council or anywhere on NMW.

Whether he is avoiding tax by paying her I couldnt comment, although I doubt that the tax paid on £120 a week is going to be much. But thats down to him and nothing to do with her.

Original poster

TrudyBell · 02/05/2017 21:35

I've had a long talk with DP tonight.

He's apologised for the lying and said tbh he didn't tell me as there were some jealously issues on my behalf a few years ago (this is true). I don't want children and found his love for his DD hard to understand.

With regards to work he says the tax write off is nothing compared to his tax bill. She does occasionally do work for him. I asked him what and he said she phones other companies in his line of work for quotes? And when we are on holiday she looks after the company social media! Also if she is at the cash and carry she picks up some stationery for him and he collects it when he picks DD up.

So I'm not really sure what else there is to say. I'm not going to report my DP or her. His take on it was "are you really going to make her go and work for 16hrs with 4 kids one of whom is mine for the same amount of money we spend on 2/3 dinners". I can kind of see his point. Thanks for the advice.

OP posts:

PyongyangKipperbang · 02/05/2017 21:39

So she is in fact doing work for him and therefore no benefit fraud or tax fraud is being committed?

So there is nothing to report then.

Etymology23 · 02/05/2017 22:43

Just a very slow 16 hrs a week!

www.taxinsider.co.uk/760-Tax_Implications_of_Employing_Family_Members.html

Looks from this as though it's a bit dodgy, but could probably argue that she works flexitime. He's paying all relevant taxes, she is declaring the job she contractually holds. You might suggest to him that they up the amount she does a bit to remain within guidelines but otherwise I think it's pretty much legal.

Others may argue it's morally questionable, but I'm torn between morally questionable and financially astute! I think it's probably both.

Kennethwasmyfriend · 02/05/2017 22:49

I don't want children and found his love for his DD hard to understand
That's a really alarming statement to read, not the first part obviously. He left a child of about 1 year old and you thought he should love her less?

Majorgoodwinschickenbeatstrump · 02/05/2017 22:57

To be fair I can see why he's lied to you for 3 years if your first response is to post everything about it on mumsnet and then think to shop him.

Felicity91 · 03/05/2017 00:13

Wow. Sorry, but wow.

Your message is essentially defraud everyone else so she does very little. You'll let him walk all over you. HMRC need to know about this. You do realise this is defrauding all of us, it's not a victimless crime as your cowardly partner is so keen to portray. Not all of us will swallow his lies.

I'm amazed people here are so happy to defend fraud. It is not victimless.

This sort of stuff gives MN a bad name.

RainbowPastel · 03/05/2017 06:49

So you are now complicit in his fraud. What he is doing is wrong can't you see that? I would have no trust in someone who has lied to me for three years.

As for your comment about finding his love for his child hard to understand that is seriously weird.

Nanna50 · 03/05/2017 07:06

...found his love for his DD hard to understand really?

Then no wonder he didn't tell you, his ex probably does work for him, he is saying she doesn't because if you struggled with his love for his daughter then how were you going to deal with him employing his ex and their working relationship?

He didn't want the hassle of you kicking off and there has probably never been a good time to tell you.

Greyponcho · 03/05/2017 08:16

Sorry OP, I think I'm with Nanna50 on this one now that you've given us more info.
Your first post makes him out like a shady tax-dodging liar who blamed you for being mad for finding out, but it now seems like he daren't have told you because of your jealousy issues with his daughter, his love for whom you can't understand.

Also, who did you think did the social media stuff while you were on holiday?

EleanorRigbysNeice · 03/05/2017 08:18

This thread has now become ridiculous. OP, grow up/get some counselling/help or leave this relationship. If my DS couldn't understand my love for my child, I wouldn't be with him.

EleanorRigbysNeice · 03/05/2017 08:19

DH (not DS). DH is a brilliant stepdad. One of the reasons I love him, as I do.

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