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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

About DPs ex?

95 replies

TrudyBell · 02/05/2017 15:03

We've been together 3 years

He has a successful business and I earn a good amount. We pay 50/50 bills and have our own spending money. Pay 50/50 for holidays etc. It roughly works out the same. We are comfortable money wise.

His ex has 4 children, 1 is his (the youngest) she is 4. I'm not the OW but we got together a few mths after they split.

Ex works 16 hrs a week. As far as DP has told me she does admin work. The DD goes to a nursery (I've never been or seen it).

All of DPs accounts are at home after the tax year. They were on our shared desk and I had a quick flick through them. I have no idea really what he makes (rough idea as it's similar to me).

On his accounts he has her employed by him for 16 hrs minimum wage a week as an administrator Hmm. I asked him wtf?

Turns out she doesn't actually work for him at all, he pays her for doing nothing so she can get working tax credits without having to actually go to work. His argument is that they didn't want to put DD in childcare, she has 4 DC (and he's still close to the other 3) and he feels bad for leaving her with the baby.

I can't quite actually believe it. He said it's not really my business what his business does as long as he's paying what he should be into the bills and we are comfortable so what does it matter. He didn't tell me because I would "kick off".

AIBU?!

OP posts:
LightYears · 02/05/2017 16:34

It's 16 hours a week she won't be getting tax credits except child tax credit really she could claim income support and get the same benefits She could get working and child tax credits.

DontBeASalmon · 02/05/2017 16:34

how do you know she doesn't type 2 invoices a week and do some "research" for the business, gets some leads or do some admin bits and bobs when the kids are in bed?

It's not fraud, we are still allowed to employ people as we see fit in this country. What they do to justify their salary is between the employers and them.

Are you really ready to end a 3 year relationship because you are jealous of his ex wife, and because the man tries to support the mother of his baby in a way they see best? Good luck for proving she does do any work to justify her salary.

LightYears · 02/05/2017 16:34

*Plus housing benefit

Greyponcho · 02/05/2017 16:36

Fraud or not, it his lies that are the issue and putting your business and therefore livelihood at great risk - if he gets found out, how safe are your finances?
Would HMRC believe you if you deny any knowledge or would you be expected to be woven into the lies and saying "oh yes Mary Jane works for us".
If he'd been upfront at the beginning of the relationship I'd think it was him taking responsibility for his kid.
For him to be such an arsehole about it in respect to not wanting to tell you, and it being your fault that you're mad when you found out, rings bells.
Does he have form for gas lighting you, OP?

Justmadeperfectflapjacks · 02/05/2017 16:39

In his mind he is doing his bit to support his dc.

It wouldn't have occurred to him to tell you as he won't think it's your business. .
If it bothers you that's much then finish him and walk away.

Original poster
TrudyBell · 02/05/2017 16:50

Sorry, didn't mean to read and run

He pays maintenance on top. It wasn't set up to save him any money (would be hardly anything anyway according to him). He says it's 16hrs a week min wage and we spend that amount on going out to dinner a month (probably true) so what's the problem?

If he stopped paying her she would have to work 16hrs as something to do with the benefit cap means she doesn't/wouldn't get income support.

So the only difference to the state is that she isn't physically working! She would still be getting the same money in tax credits for doing any 16hr min wage job but she doesn't have to pay childcare. DD does go to nursery btw but she has funded hrs?

The lying is a whole separate issue which I don't even know where to start with.

OP posts:
needsahalo · 02/05/2017 17:51

So you're basically pissed off that your partner gives a shit about the mother of his child, has helped her maximise her Income and is paying maintenance as any good father would?

Or you're pissed off that she doesn't actually work? Or that your partner got involved with someone with a poorer work ethic than you? Or angry he got involved with someone as lowly as admin? A kind of let's slag ff single mums by the back door?

Or is it the case the only thing to be pissed off about is the fact you were lied to and that has fuck all to do with the ex?

happypoobum · 02/05/2017 18:00

He is benefitting from this arrangement as PP have explained.

I would be very unhappy he has lied to me for three years.

Obviously if you dob him in the relationship is over - up to you whether you feel you can trust him going forwards.

anothermalteserplease · 02/05/2017 18:00

I'd be annoyed about the lying bit not so much the arrangement. If he's paying the wages properly with tax deductions and NI and she's declaring that income properly then I don't think it's so bad. Id be annoyed at being lied to though.

EleanorRigbysNeice · 02/05/2017 18:00

I'm a nurse and was a single parent for 5 yrs. I turned my own life and my son's life upside down to cover shifts/weekend/holidays. When I finally gave in and had no choice but to reduce my hours (due to ex DH not covering night shifts and living miles away from family to accommodate ex's job) I was required to work 16 hrs minimum in order to qualify for Working Tax Credit. No one "made up" a job for me; I couldn't sit at home and get my tax credits pain anyhow (whilst not actually working).

Can no one see that she, and he are in the wrong in doing this?

darwinsbabe · 02/05/2017 18:04

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SemiNormal · 02/05/2017 18:08

So you're basically pissed off that your partner gives a shit about the mother of his child, has helped her maximise her Income and is paying maintenance as any good father would? - You don't have to commit fraud with your ex to give a shit and so would any good father commit fraud then? and so long as it benefits the ex and child that's just fabulous!

Or you're pissed off that she doesn't actually work? Or that your partner got involved with someone with a poorer work ethic than you? Or angry he got involved with someone as lowly as admin? A kind of let's slag ff single mums by the back door? - That's one hell of a leap to the conclusion you've jumped too from the OPs post. You sound like your projecting your own issues.

Or is it the case the only thing to be pissed off about is the fact you were lied to and that has fuck all to do with the ex? - Of course it has something to do with the ex! They are involved in committing fraud together. It's a joint enterprise!

witsender · 02/05/2017 18:20

How is he paying less than he should? Presumably maintenance for 1 child is less than wages and associated costs for 16 hrs per wk?

Does the dad of the other three pay maintenance?

NauticalDisaster · 02/05/2017 18:27

He is helping her defraud the system. I couldn't be with someone so dishonest, it would be a deal breaker for me.

PollytheDolly · 02/05/2017 18:28

I can't believe some of the minimising here.

It's fraud, lies and long term dishonesty from all aspects.

LakieLady · 02/05/2017 18:42

I think he's behaving appallingly, and so is she.

It's fraud. She'll be claiming child and working tax credits she's not entitled to, and avoiding the benefit cap, and he's colluding in this. He's not paying tax on the money he pays her, and she won't be paying tax on it either (on a "salary" that low, she won't have used all her personal allowance and is probably below the threshold for NI).

Between them, they're ripping us all off.

As for lying to you about it, if I was in your shoes, I'd wonder what else he's been lying about.

Chinnygirl · 02/05/2017 18:43

I find it refreshing to read a post on here where the father is trying to take good care of his previous family.

Why do you care how he divides his money? Do you want or need it?

SemiNormal · 02/05/2017 18:53

I seriously think I must be on another planet sometimes. Hmm

DontBeASalmon · 02/05/2017 19:34

She is not being paid cash in hand and claiming she hasn't got anything. That would be fraud. He has a business, pays her a salary. I just hope they clever enough to do a bit of paperwork to justify her hours.

As long as they pay all the relevant tax and everything, how is that hurting anyone? What's the difference with paying a non-executive director a 3 figure salary for 1 or 2 hours of "work" a month?
Thank god we are in a system where you don't have to justify how you salary people, as long as you pay them the minimum wage!

If people are so irrate, they should start by fighting the real fraudsters

EleanorRigbysNeice · 02/05/2017 19:50

But he says he employs her. He's lying. He doesn't employ her.

DontBeASalmon · 02/05/2017 19:53

so what? If I "employ" you as my nanny, pay you but you don't do any real hours, what's the issue? As long as the relevant tax and contributions are paid, how is that outrageous.

Again, she might be sending a couple of invoices or do some research to justify her salary, who knows.

It's not exactly like paying your wife/ daughter with the tax payer money, is it?

Ditsy1980 · 02/05/2017 20:05

I'd be upset by the lying, I don't understand why if he's already told you that she has an admin job why he couldn't have added "in my business". Her working for him is not an issue or wouldn't be for me, but it's the lying for 3 years about it that is.

The fact she doesn't actually do any work is a different issue, I have no idea whether it's fraud or not but it does seem a bit immoral. It's cheating the system, whether there's a loophole or not. If your DH can afford it anyway why not just pay her the extra amount as top up maintenance?

EleanorRigbysNeice · 02/05/2017 20:07

But you don't qualify for WTC unless you work 16 hrs per week. How would it beif I, as a stay at home mum (now) wanted a bit of extra cash and someone lied and said I worked for them and I then got my benefit, that'd be ok, would it. It's fraud.

SemiNormal · 02/05/2017 20:12

If your DH can afford it anyway why not just pay her the extra amount as top up maintenance? - Because she wouldn't then get a top up of working tax credits and free childcare.

DontBeASalmon · 02/05/2017 20:15

it's different to "say you worked" and to pay you a legal salary.

It's impossible to regulate anyway! Take any small business owner, whose partner is on the books. How on earth do you prove if said partner works 1 hour or 20 hours for the business?

Of all the things currently wrong in our system, this is the very last one on my list. I really can't even see anything wrong in it.

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