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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

About DPs ex?

95 replies

TrudyBell · 02/05/2017 15:03

We've been together 3 years

He has a successful business and I earn a good amount. We pay 50/50 bills and have our own spending money. Pay 50/50 for holidays etc. It roughly works out the same. We are comfortable money wise.

His ex has 4 children, 1 is his (the youngest) she is 4. I'm not the OW but we got together a few mths after they split.

Ex works 16 hrs a week. As far as DP has told me she does admin work. The DD goes to a nursery (I've never been or seen it).

All of DPs accounts are at home after the tax year. They were on our shared desk and I had a quick flick through them. I have no idea really what he makes (rough idea as it's similar to me).

On his accounts he has her employed by him for 16 hrs minimum wage a week as an administrator Hmm. I asked him wtf?

Turns out she doesn't actually work for him at all, he pays her for doing nothing so she can get working tax credits without having to actually go to work. His argument is that they didn't want to put DD in childcare, she has 4 DC (and he's still close to the other 3) and he feels bad for leaving her with the baby.

I can't quite actually believe it. He said it's not really my business what his business does as long as he's paying what he should be into the bills and we are comfortable so what does it matter. He didn't tell me because I would "kick off".

AIBU?!

OP posts:
EleanorRigbysNeice · 02/05/2017 15:51

There are people losing benefits and disability payments every day. Is it really possible to just shrug and say "this happens all the time!"? It's disgusting.

MyBeautifulSquid · 02/05/2017 15:54

I totally don't blame them tbh I would do same if I could

HappyFlappy · 02/05/2017 15:56

he's lied to you for three years. The lying would bother me most of all

Yes - this is the worst bit n my eyes, too.

Peanutbutterrules · 02/05/2017 15:57

Its fraud. It may be common but that's kinda not the point.

Its a moral compass thing - are you happy with this? If not, then you have a big difference in attitude to tax/liability/risk taking/fraud then your DP. It would make me wonder about other rules he'd be happy to break to benefit himself. This isn't about the kids - this is about fraud to save money.

SemiNormal · 02/05/2017 15:59

There are people losing benefits and disability payments every day. Is it really possible to just shrug and say "this happens all the time!"? It's disgusting

This is how I feel about it too. In all likelihood people not committing benefit fraud wouldn't have an impact on those who are losing theirs, but still it would be too much for me morally. I'm aghast that there are people admitting they'd do the same on this thread if they could.

HappyFlappy · 02/05/2017 15:59

Oh bugger so sorry missed the tax credit bit.

So did I Batgirl (I'd still be most upset about the lying). Why does he not just voluntarily increase the maintenance he provides for his daughter by that amount + oncosts? Then all is legal and above board and she can pay her own NIC.

abbsisspartacus · 02/05/2017 16:03

It's 16 hours a week she won't be getting tax credits except child tax credit really she could claim income support and get the same benefits

dancemom · 02/05/2017 16:03

Of course it's fraud!

Rather than pay her enough maintenance to allow her to stay at home he expects the government to pay her tax credits instead!

QuiteLikely5 · 02/05/2017 16:04

He does it this way because if she has 4 children she will be getting an absolute fortune in working tax credits!

I wouldn't report though.

If they get found out they will be in serious trouble - it's a risk they are prepared to take

EleanorRigbysNeice · 02/05/2017 16:08

I'd have to report, if it were me. I'd feel bad doing it but as someone mentioned, this woman will be raking it in, if she's got other scams going "on" the other kids. It's ridiculous.

MyBeautifulSquid · 02/05/2017 16:09

Wouldn't it cost the state more if she worked? As a lone parent surely she would get a high % of her childcare paid?

PyongyangKipperbang · 02/05/2017 16:10

As fraud goes its not something I could get my knickers in a knot about. She is not taking more from the state than if she worked 16 hours elsewhere, she would be getting the same in TC no matter who she worked or "worked" for. And proving that she doesnt actually do any work would be quite hard, they could both claim that she types up documents from home and it would be hard to prove different.

What would bother me is if he wants to end the arrangment. If this arrangement has been standing for more than 2 years she has the full set of employment rights and could sue him if he just decided to not employ her anymore. She is entitled to redundancy pay too if the business fails...... Its not a very sensible arrangement from his point of view but I wouldnt bother reporting it to HMRC unless you want precisely fuck all to happen apart from the ending of your relationship.

EleanorRigbysNeice · 02/05/2017 16:10

And as for the OP's DP. He lies. He lies to get out of paying what he should and can pay so that the tax payer can foot the bill. Am I missing something here? I'd be running from this guy, quick as my feet would carry me.

EleanorRigbysNeice · 02/05/2017 16:12

And OP, he didn't tell you because he knew youd kick off. Nice. Real nice attitude. You going to stay with this man?

PyongyangKipperbang · 02/05/2017 16:13

SO many busybodies on here!

She is actually costing the state LESS by doing this your realise?!

If she wasnt "working" for him then she would get IS, HB CTB and CTC plus maintenance from him. As the maintenance is paid as "wages" it is declared income so is counted against her CTC claim which maintenance isnt.

But yes, report her for saving the sate money cos that makes sense Hmm

Etymology23 · 02/05/2017 16:14

I mean I'm not sure that it would necessarily be fraud. I don't think there's a required minimum amount of work that you have to do in order to be employed - e.g. Many directors will be paid fees of 20-40k a year for doing basically nothing If they own the business but it's managed by someone else.

It would probably be safest if she posted a few invoices or something, to save any questions.

On a non-legal side, I can definitely see why you're frustrated!

PolynesianGirl · 02/05/2017 16:18

It's fraud because the money he pays in wages will not appear as a benefit for his company and therefore he won't be paying taxes on it.

But what I would have a massive issue is the lying. Lying about the child being at nursery. Lying about her being employed. Lying about the way they have organised themselves re the maintenance.

And yes I'm sure he is feeling VERY guilty towards all the children hence his quite angry reaction.

MrsTeller · 02/05/2017 16:20

Is he also paying maintenance on top of the "wages".

PyongyangKipperbang · 02/05/2017 16:21

The more I think about this the more i wonder if it has nothing to do with "Fraud" at all, and I agree with ety btw that it may not be.

Are you maybe just jealous and cross that they have this extra level of involvement with each other over and above their relationship as co parents?

PyongyangKipperbang · 02/05/2017 16:22

Is he also paying maintenance on top of the "wages".

And? Still saving the state money!

Isnt the that the MN yardstick on whether a NRP is pulling their weight financially, that he isnt just paying the bare minimum.

RainbowPastel · 02/05/2017 16:22

It's definitely fraud. Some relationship you have where he has lied to you for 3 years.

Felicity91 · 02/05/2017 16:24

One of my sisters' friends got caught by HMRC in a similar scam. It did not end well. They are cracking down on this a lot more now.

But main issue for me is the lying. He's been lying to you for the benefit of his ex, and defrauding us all in the process.

I'd have to question if he could do this and is still not contrite, what else is he capable of?

His not even man enough to pay for his responsibilities the proper and legal way. He instead chooses to commit fraud. Pathetic behaviour.

PyongyangKipperbang · 02/05/2017 16:25

Just reread the OP and nowhwere does it say that he is also paying maintenance

AHedgehogCanNeverBeBuggered · 02/05/2017 16:26

Tax fraud (his company should be paying tax on that money) AND benefit fraud.

Disgraceful. I'd report and walk away.

MrsTeller · 02/05/2017 16:30

PyongyangKipperbang I have no objection to NRPs paying above basic maintenance, I was just trying to understand the situation.