AIBU to feel the UK is really a bit crap?

[clogdance]

We have a German exchange child staying with us. He has been learning English at school for 2 years, and is apparently not top of the class in it. He spent supper talking to me about the rights and wrongs of vegetarianism and veganism.
He also mentioned that he lives in an old house but that new houses in Germany are larger and more solidly built. Just like here then .
His family are very very pleased that they unlike us are staying in the EU. And that they, unlike us, are welcoming a very large number of Syrian refugees.
Being English feels pretty depressing.

With the other nations speaking English / the British not being good at speaking a foreign language thing I think we are at a disadvantage. For huge parts of the world English is the second language or business language, so which equally universal language could the British learn? . I've been in France and witnessed a hotelier conversing in English with Japanese guests. Which of those languages should an English person learn? If I was fluent in French the Japanese person wouldn't understand me, if I learnt Japanese the French person wouldn't understand me. I started to learn Italian some years ago but that wouldn't get me far in Germany or India, I would probably be okay if I spoke English in both those countries though. Basically I think people are unfairly harsh on the British with regard to learning languages.

The larger size of German homes may be connected to the fact that they have a lower population density than us. It doesn't make the UK more 'crap' just more overpopulated.

The UK is not crap, it's a beautiful country with lots of potential and lots of issues. It has made many mistakes and done some horrible things to itself and the rest of the world, like most other countries. There are details about other countries which I prefer, but details never come in isolation. Unfortunately it is frequently impossible to tack another country's nicer details onto the swirling mass of your own country and expect them to stick. I love this country because it is where I am from.

Maybe they're irritated by the blanket comments about the UK being a bit crap and depresssing, based on a conversation with one person.

A post started about something specific, like comparing houses around Europe and what we could learn, would have got different answers.

lostwithin quite, which language?

Last summer I helped a Dutch family buy boat trip tickets in France. The parents and kids didn't speak French, the man at the kiosk didn't speak Dutch. The kids spoke some basic English, so I knew what they wanted and could pick up on the odd Dutch word. In a mixture of basic French and English I got their tickets. Then communicated to them where the trip was going, where the sea could be rough and how long before the trip they should arrive.

I'm teaching myself some more German at the moment but am realistic about how useful it will be in my life.

Avoiding discussion including talking about the pros and cons on both sides by 'if you think that then go and live elsewhere/vote for (insert opposite political party) etc etc is tedious beyond belief and is evident here as in the many Brexit threads over the last year. As is a certain 'chippyness' with some posters as a result of any perceived slight towards the U.K. Along with this idea that there is the U.K. and there is Abroad or Europe where all said other countries can be grouped together in one indistinguishable mass, none of which will ever match up to the best of the U.K.

There is a lot I love about the U.K., the history, the culture, music, countryside, multi-culturalism which despite the recent regressions post Brexit is still way ahead of where I live in Italy. But a class size of 20 in our local (excellent) state school in the capital for ds, a health system which has a real focus on preventative care (even if I have to pay 15-50 euros for a 'ticket' for a blood test or mammogram, a rental contract which pretty much makes it sure that I can live in my current house for decades if I choose without fear of eviction are all things that add hugely to the quality of our life. Oh and the countryside and culture is pretty spectacular here too. And ds's class of 10 year olds are all able to have a small conversation in English already. None of me thinking this means I despise Britain or think Italy is perfect (far from it!). Just that there are pros and cons in both countries and for me the pros in Italy outweigh those in the U.K.

Why are so many English posters so defensive and not willing to accept that some aspects ARE better in Germany and that could be learnt from?

Yes everywhere has its crappy points but some things are done better in some places than others and we could learn from them. The op didn't initially say that though, she said she felt that "the uk is really a bit crap" and being English is depressing. Of course people are going to be defensive about that!!

Oh for Goodness sake get a grip.

The racism towards the Turkish people is rife. The inflexibility around careers is stiffling. Even changing organisations is hugely frowned upon. There is huge system of hierarchy within the workplace which I found very difficult to work within (you are not allowed to question your bosses boss)

However, if living in a good quality house in a less populated land was my top priority, I'd happily live there!

I feel extremely lucky to have happened to have been born here. No doubt I'd feel the same if I'd been born in Germany. Like anywhere there are upsides and downsides.

Why all the UK bashing of late?? We don't need to think that we are crap just because there are specifics we strongly disagree with.

Germany is a nice country and the people I know who have visited or lived in Germany mostly have positive things to say about it. Housing and public transport are better than in the UK. There is less imbalance between the capital and the rest of the country, compared to the UK--lots of successful mid sized cities and mid-sized companies. Successful industry and economy. Things are mostly well organized and safe.

On the other hand: Germany can be a surprisingly sexist country. It seems to be less good at integrating immigrants than the UK--lots of "parallel society" issues. The food tends to be unhealthy and there is less variety than in the UK. Lots of smoking too. The migrant/refugee decision has divided people A LOT and not everyone is very happy about it.

As for the language thing--you can't really compare the UK and Germany. English is a global lingua franca and English speakers just don't have the same incentives to get good at other languages.

I have lived in a lot of countries, some in developing countries and some Western.

While there are issues here in the UK such as cost of living, vastly inflated housing and (in my opinion) a weakened social safety net, there really is so much here that people forget to celebrate.

Here is what I miss when I am not here: The amazing history all around us, the glorious parks in London, the enshrined right of way for walkers and the lovely paths, the supermarkets/shopping, the sense of humour, basic decency, eccentrics, cheese, scones...etc etc

What I don't miss: The housing costs, crowded public transport, the stress I feel here, the negativity and the weather!

(PS: I lived in Germany for a short period and you couldn't pay me to go back...so each to their own)

i think it's really worrying that so many people are telling me to emigrate, on the basis that I've dared to express some concerns about the present day UK.

I agree with clog on this one

I have been on mumsnet for a number of years now and pre 2016 i didnt see comments like this

Now these comments are prevalent on politics threads, brexit threads and any threads that express unhappiness with the uk

Please don't base your opinion on a few comments from a young German exchange student. No country is perfect by any means. Having lived in France and New Zealand we now realise how lucky we are. Each country has its stengths and weaknesses, but believe me there are many plusses to living in the UK - and yes the NHS included! Maybe we should all appreciate it more, the media always talk it down. The morning newsreader in NZ actually says at the end of his broadcast - "Have a wonderful day in paradise".
That is what we need in this country a sense of pride!!

Theresamust really??? He said that even under the worst days of the Communist no one would be condemned to live in such awful circumstances as we lived, in our pretty averages SE England flat.** So communist East German living was better than UK southeast? Do you think perhaps his views weren't entirely representative of most people under the communist dictatorship?!?! Or are you advocating dictatorship as they way forward?

The UK is a bit crap in some ways but great in other ways. I think the UK does a better job of integrating immigrants than many other countries, but the UK's welfare system is a bit shit really, and getting shitter all the time thanks to the Tories.

I left the UK ten years ago and could never live there again but God I miss the sense of humour, the friendliness and the Sunday afternoon family pub culture.

However I live in Finland now and I'm very happy that my DD will have an excellent education, can have a 'proper' childhood with lots of freedom, and that we can afford to buy a house (79k traditional wooden detached house with big garden and garage) and have marvellous countryside on our doorstep (forests and lakes) and I don't have to worry if things go fucked up because the welfare system is excellent.

It's a very English thing (NB not so often IME a Scots, Welsh or N Irish thing) to denigrate or slag off your own country. Seems to be a national characteristic.
Regardless of what may be the faults or drawbacks of their own country, you don't often hear other nationalities doing it. Rather the reverse. And I lived overseas for many years in multi-national communities.

Having said that, over the past few years have known a couple of Italians in despair at many aspects of their own country.

Where I live in the U.K. many of our neighbours are of non Brit origin. Most have been here a long time and are happy to be here, particularly since several are from the sort of countries where any criticism of any powerful figure is liable to get you arrested/beaten up/tortured, if not worse.

Skerry, near the capital? I am wondering where this magic place is! ( I realise you might not want to answer).

I'm often warned that ill experience more racism visiting other European countries but haven't done so for 20 years. I think everywhere has become more racist in that time.

Yes 20 minutes from the capital. I have a railway station 5 minutes walk from my home.
In the heart of the city centre in 20 minutes.

Which capital i think is the more relevant question goldfish

My friend lived in Germany for 2 years. She loved it because it was clean and healthy and she felt safe there.

But after 2 years she was bored shitless and v happy to get back to the uk where she felt there was more variety in terms of culture and things to do.

Short answer: no, the U.K. is not crap. Nor is Germany. Both are lovely first world countries to live in. But which one is "better" to live in - depends on your priorities and preferences.

Have you lived in France or Germany? No, then shut up.

Our east German flatmate in 1999 went on and on about how much better Germany was than UK- as do my German cousins - Germans are not afraid to big up their country and downplay others - I smiled and nodded 🤣

I have family in Germany who have lived there for over 20 years. Their appraisal isn't quite as glowing. Healthcare seems to be in better shape though. They said they would have voted to leave the EU if they had the opportunity.

It doesn't matter if it's crap. It's all some of us our going to have. Make it better (apart form the weather - that's out of our hands, right?).

Bigging up our country and downplaying others looks like something the Brits are quite good at as well looking at posts here. I don't really recognize the description above of the English denigrating their country as being a national characteristic. I think the English are good at moaning about things but that is different.

my honest opinion is that if you don't like our country or feel the need to slag it off then you can always fuck off else where