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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Aibu to worry about handing a child to their parent who's clearly been drinking

114 replies

OopsDearyMe · 28/04/2017 19:55

My dd 8 had a playdate today her mum told me that her dad would collect. The parents aren't together due to alcahol problems.
When the dad arrived he wreaked of alcahol, struggled with eye contact and his eyes were bloodshot.
I let her go but now I'm wondering if I should have told the mum ?
Mum was out on a girls night herself.
Was I right?

OP posts:
NuffSaidSam · 28/04/2017 20:47

'No, just illegally Withold her from her parent. Would you really keep a child who wanted to go with their father against their wishes?'

It would depend on the circumstances, but possibly, yes. I'd do my best to keep the child safe.

'Ha! The police could arrest you for it'.

They wouldn't though, would they? They'd apply a bit of common sense to the situation!

'It's not your call to make.'

It would be actually. In that moment it would be my call or your call. Within a few minutes the mother or the police could be contacted and then you can hand that responsibility over, but in that moment when he knocks on the door drunk and asks for his daughter it's on you. You have the choice to hand her over or to delay/make an excuse/just refuse. You are correct that I/you would then have to face the consequences of that decision. I would not let her go if I didn't feel it was safe and take my chances with the mother and the police.

BillSykesDog · 28/04/2017 20:48

At the same time though, if you did refuse to hand over the child his only recourse would be to call the police. And the police might well decide that the child should be taken into protective custody.

Atenco · 28/04/2017 20:49

Zilpha, I imagine the rules would be more strictly applied to childminders than to an ordinary mortal

CMamaof4 · 28/04/2017 20:51

Aww oopsdearyme that makes me so sad, Have u rang her mum? Please do

Ratatatouille · 28/04/2017 20:52

Zilpha to be fair, I don't think it makes someone "batshit" to think that they would be operating within the law if they refused to hand over a child to a drunken parent. Maybe the law is not on the child's side in this instance, but I think you would be forgiven for assuming that it was. Somebody doing this would only be making the call to protect the child first and foremost.

ZilphasHatpin · 28/04/2017 20:53

They wouldn't though, would they? They'd apply a bit of common sense to the situation!

They don't always have the freedom to apply their own common sense. If the father made a big enough deal and asked to press charges they may have to go through the process. It's a big chance to take hoping that other people have the same common sense as you do!

Wrt the knife wielding druggie, slightly different scenario.

Oakmaiden · 28/04/2017 20:53

The girl didn't appear eager to go and she was not at all happy to see him.

My children are often reluctant to go and hide at the end of a playdate. You can't read anything into this.

NuffSaidSam · 28/04/2017 20:57

'It's a big chance to take hoping that other people have the same common sense as you do!'

It's a chance I'd be willing to take. You may feel differently and that's ok. I don't think it makes me 'batshit' though, more 'concerned and trying to do what is in the child's best interests'!

x2boys · 28/04/2017 20:58

what would the police do though if they were called unless the dad was falling over drunk and incapable of looking after the child i cant see the the police doing much he smells of alcohol , so what he might have had a couple of pints , i,m having a glass of wine once i,ve tidied up by 11 i may smell of alcohol but my kids are in bed and in no danger?

Maryhadalittlelambstew · 28/04/2017 21:00

@AtSea1979 from the OP's post I think it was the part alcohol has played in the history of this family that raised concern. I know 'wine'oclock' and 'time for gin' are phrases tossed about on lots of social media and forums (but thats a whole other issue) and alcohol has become part of our normality, I'm forever being challenged on why I don't drink, but as the OP mentioned in the first post alcohol was the cause for the marriage break down. That's the impression I got anyhow. I could be wrong of course. Thing is alcohol, even in small amounts, lowers reaction time and inhibitions and decreases our capability to behave normally. I think I'm biased and have a dim view of alcohol being consumed around children because of my own issues with it and being the child of alcoholics though so perhaps I'm not being fair.

Original poster
OopsDearyMe · 28/04/2017 21:00

He was 30 mins late and got lost..
So ..
Not judging but concerned

OP posts:
Maryhadalittlelambstew · 28/04/2017 21:03

That's my thoughts too @BillSykesDog , if police were called out they would definitely take a closer look and probably breathalyze the parent, if he was found to be over the limit I doubt very much they would allow him to leave with the child.

Original poster
OopsDearyMe · 28/04/2017 21:04

I text mum but not had a reply. Also you can tell the difference between a child who doesnt want to end a playdate and one who's a little dispirited ..

OP posts:
ZilphasHatpin · 28/04/2017 21:07

It's a chance I'd be willing to take. You may feel differently and that's ok. I don't think it makes me 'batshit' though, more 'concerned and trying to do what is in the child's best interests'!

You'd still have no right to do it. Whether you think it's the right thing for the child or not.

ZilphasHatpin · 28/04/2017 21:08

if he was found to be over the limit I doubt very much they would allow him to leave with the child.

Over what limit?

Ceto · 28/04/2017 21:09

If the father made a big enough deal and asked to press charges they may have to go through the process

No, they don't.

NuffSaidSam · 28/04/2017 21:10

'You'd still have no right to do it. Whether you think it's the right thing for the child or not.'

I'm not disagreeing with you on that and haven't done. As I said, it's not about legal rights. I've said I'd accept the consequences of doing something that I had no legal right to do.

To be clear: I totally believe you re. I would have no legal right to keep the child.

I'd still do it though. And I don't think that makes me 'batshit' as you so kindly put it!

Ceto · 28/04/2017 21:11

Zilpha, are you seriously suggesting someone has no choice but to hand over a child to a parent who constitutes an obvious danger to that child? How about in the logical conclusion scenario I suggested above?

NuffSaidSam · 28/04/2017 21:13

I think Zilpha's stuck on the legal aspect, which I don't think anyone actually disagrees with rather than looking at the moral/common sense approach to the situation.

Ceto · 28/04/2017 21:16

I think I disagree on the legal aspect. It is perfectly legal to take action to prevent a child being seriously injured or dying. If you see a parent with legal custody beating his child, child manages to get away and runs to you, does anyone seriously imagine you have a legal duty to hand the child straight back?

ZilphasHatpin · 28/04/2017 21:17

Yes, as I said in my very first post here I am talking about having a legal right to hold someone else's child from them. I was shocked that that poster suggested it. Fine if you want to take that risk. But I'm shocked you would suggest it. As I said regarding the knife wielding druggie, it's a bit of a different scenario. Obviously. You would still have no legal right to hold the child from them but I suspect the risk of consequence to you would be far less than if it was a parent who had had one too many to drink which isn't necessarily an "obvious danger"

AnnieAnoniMouse · 28/04/2017 21:18

If he was going to drive or take her on public transport then I wouldn't have let him take her (it's ok Zilpha, I'll take the chance the police have an ounce of common sense). I'm saying public transport because he might get lost again, pass out, lose her or anything.

Walking home wouldn't be such a worry, but I'd still be worried about her.

Irrespective, I'd have suggested, rather forcefully, that a sleep over at ours might be the best option and offered to call the police to see what they thought if he didn't agree & became belligerent.

But I'm talking actually drunk, not some people's idea of half a shandy rendering anyone incapable of looking after a child.

thatverynightinmaxsroom · 28/04/2017 21:18

I used to volunteer with vulnerable kids. Our training (which was police endorsed) was that we should always return the kids to their parents, no matter the state of the parents, if the kids acted as though it was normal. So if you took them into their home and there were needles out on the table and parents glazed over you left them there, if they went in happily and got on with things. Which they generally did.

These were kids and families already typically in the system. I found this incredibly hard to cope with at first.

In the situation the OP describes? Honestly, I'd let the girl go (as Dad not driving) but I would feel pretty shit about it. My own Dad was a functioning alcoholic and it was very depressing being looked after him when he was drunk.

Maryhadalittlelambstew · 28/04/2017 21:21

Over the legal alcohol/driving limit. And before you get your knickers in a twist I know he wasn't driving but once over the 'safe' limit for driving you're deemed unfit for work, operating machinery etc and I'm pretty sure the police would declare unsafe in charge of a child. Also just because he didn't arrive in a car to collect the kid doesn't mean he wouldn't have driven her around after. What if he decided to make something to eat once she's in bed and fell asleep drunk? Yes these are all what ifs but hardly wildly unlikely.

As @NuffSaidSam says, you seem to be stuck on the legalities rather than the moral/common sense approach. No is is saying she is "legally" within her rights to withold the child but most agree it wouldn't sit right with them on their moral compass.

Maryhadalittlelambstew · 28/04/2017 21:22

*Wouldn't sit right with them on their moral compass to allow the parent to take her.

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