To think it's wrong that Dance and Drama students get so much help with degree costs?

[Serin]

When everyone else has to pay £9000 a year and then living costs.
If the government has money to fund some courses why not use it to fund nursing students?
www.gov.uk/dance-drama-awards

Do we have a chronic shortage of actors?

There is a list of names on the DaDa website.

Ovaries I don't think any courses like that exist for acting, dance or vocal training.

There are many routes into making theatre, and I regularly work with people who found their love for it in university societies, or did a drama degree at a regular university. They're not usually the actors, dancers or singers, though.

Ovaries funnily enough I had my training in the 90s where that really wasn't the case - there was a clear distinction between the degree and diploma courses and us actors very much thought the degree courses were for directors and teachers.

Late 90s/early noughties most of the diploma courses changed to attract degree funding (there must have been something going on from central govt to trigger that but can't remember what it was). My old course is a degree now and probably about 60/40 practical to theory. When it was a dip it was 95/5 - I wrote one 1500 word essay in my whole three years and attended one hour of 'textual analysis' a week. I really, really, really don't have anything like a degree

(And not that I want to set anyone off, but I got a grant!)

So it isn't a level 4 course, A level equivalent. So the argument that it is the same as doing A levels is wrong. Just because it says you can start at 16 doesn't mean it is the same as 6th form. If you are bright enough and do A levels early you can start a degree at 16 or 17 or even earlier, Ruth Lawrence anyone?
There are student loans for drama, dance courses so students can access funds like any other student, at least that is what people are saying.

So why do dance and drama students need these bursaries anymore than any other student? I'm not talking about it being frivolous or less useful but why the special treatment.

Basket so are you saying the course Ovaries did doesn't exist anymore or that she is making it up? There seems to be alot of fake news on this thread but I can't imagine why Ovaries would say she did a degree that didn't exist.

NotCarylChurchill, David Tennant still wouldn't have to pay fees as a Scottish student at a Scottish university as long as he was resident in Scotland that is.

I think individual schools/universities/businesses/individuals setting up scholarships and bursaries is different to government funding them.

I live within walking distance of a college which has excellent theatre/dance/music facilities. Apart from the actual students using these facilities many local groups use them in the evenings/weekends so locally people do have access to great facilities but I can't speak for all areas obviously. On the other hand we don't have great sports facilities and annoyingly local schools don't seem keen to open up their facilities for clubs, although a couple do. It seems a terrible waste that these facilities are unused for most weekends and evenings after about 5 pm.

Katymac, is your daughter doing a level 3 course, on the website the OP linked it states you have to be doing a level 5 or 6 course. Is this a different bursary?

Lonny, in getting a grant you were being treated like students studying any other course.

She is doing a level 6 diploma and the bursary is from a charity, the scholarship is from an 'anonymous benefactor'

What does a dance do at 16 - they can't get into uni to do a degree as they don't have A levels, it's fairly pointless doing a level 3 in dance as they will have passed that level at about 12 or 13

If DD hadn't got funding (whether DaDA or private) she would have had to do a level 3 in childcare/catering/tourism and not gone on to dance

granny you are trying to equate levels in performing arts to levels in more traditional subjects. That's why you don't understand how the DaDas work.

I don't want to say too much about exactly what I did. It was an acting "degree" through a non UK university, but very much a RADA set up rather than a university degree. And yes, I got funding for that I will not have to pay back. Didn't cover everything though by any means. The difference is my salary after 30 years if I stuck to what I went into right out of that wouldn't come close to someone who entered a typical graduate career route out of university. Most students in the UK on student loans won't pay it all back, no, but it's even less likely to be the case with theatre. The government are never seeing that money again either way, so might as well have the means in which its given out reflect that.

And just for the record, I am perfectly happy with my lot, granny. No bitterness here. Huge salary in acting = fame. Hell no.

Basket I've just said that's the type of degree I did, so clearly they do exist...

granny I was also 21, not 16. And that course is now a degree.

So why do dance and drama students need these bursaries anymore than any other student? I'm not talking about it being frivolous or less useful but why the special treatment

Because it's a special case. I have been sitting here for five minutes and I can't think of any other career where you have to specialise so early and where 2 years of A levels would not be beneficial. Apart from sport maybe, but that's set up differently.

Just saw your fake news comment Granny

How spiteful.

Lonny I graduated in 2015. Lots of my peers and previous graduates have gone on to be teachers and directors (and one hopeful future paramedic ) but it's produced some actors, radio presenters and other performers too :)

Regardless of the QCF level it's like funding for A levels/btec because it's a course designed for 16/17 year olds (yes some slightly older students can apply but most are younger) that they can do insteadvif A levels/btec

What's the point of going somewhere likevthe Royal Ballet School or Elmhurst if at 16 years old you then can't continue your training until you've spent two years doing A levels or a Btec that's a standard you reached at the age of 13.

Oh God I'm such a gimmer. Graduated 1995!

Don't get me wrong, drama schools are vital and it is easier to get into acting because of the industry contacts, the training intensity and the showcases you take part in.

I was just replying to the implication that you can either act and perform at drama school, or you can sit and read plays at university. I went to the middle ground

The 12 hour rehearsal days I endured while pregnant are testament to that

Can I ask you in the know how graded dance exams stand in relation to a diploma/degree in dance for example? Is it necessary to have these exams in order to peruse it further in higher education? I imagine that you would need to have studied to a certain level at least. If this is the case, we should remember that parents have usually heavily funded their child to reach this point with lessons that are very expensive.

Troll, just my experience- I didn't do my "degree" in the UK, so will be interested to see what others say. Bu in my experience, you don't need the exam certificate, you need to be at that level, if that makes sense. Lots of countries don't bother with a dance syllabus like RAD, for example. Exams provide something of a guide as to what level you should be for entering a particular course, but it should be treated as that. It doesn't matter about the exam certificate as such. But yes, either way it's a significant investment for dance exams, auditions, voice classes etc. Plus kids are paid relatively little for theatre roles, and that's the ones who get them.

I don't blame them as it is an expensive profession. Art courses are very expensive, in terms with buying extra equipment, accessories, studio time etc. My degree is related to the Arts and I was spending ££££££ on materials which had a huge impact on my living expenses.

DADAS are not available for straight acting courses in the country's top drama schools. There is a difference between a diploma in acting and a degree. Dadas are generally awarded for Dance/MT based courses.
My daughter is training in Acting at one of the top 5 Drama schools.
She applied through UCAS, and will have to, in theory, pay back her student loan, plus her maintenance loan. I say "in theory" because as many people have actually commented, the chances of her earning enough money to actually pay it back in full are pretty slim.
I know that several people have criticised drama/dance schools, but I'm not sure if many people actually realise how tough the training is. My other daughter is about to graduate with a Law degree from a red brick, Russell group uni. I have to tell you, that the Actor training has proved to be much better value for money, than the more academic option. Contact hours are far longer, teaching is relatively better .
It is also worth noting that many Drama Schools now come under universities, and therefore the unis can place their own terms on offers made, regardless of talent.
Guildford School of Acting has long been one of the top places in the country for training in acting and musical theatre. Since coming under the University of Surrey, however students now have to have minimum grades of 2A's and a B at A2 in order to be offered a place. You can have all the talent and potential in the world, but if you don't have those grades you aint getting in. This is strictly adhered to. How they equate having an A in maths with being a talented singer /actor is beyond me.

We got burgled in my third year, I spent the insurance payout on food and then still had to get a hardship grant from the Students' Union! Managed OK in first and second year but third year killed me financially -- and emotionally.

Agree with you NotCarylChurchill. 10 hour days plus Saturdays in school, not uncommon.

Ovaries in your post I thought you said you did a drama or theatre degree, unless I misread - I didn't realise it was in acting, musical theatre or dance.

I graduated a few years ago, and then the only accredited acting courses were at drama schools/very specific places but as Drama UK doesn't exist anymore to accredit, we can't really use that as a benchmark.

Fantine - I suspect it's because in order to get through the degree course, students have to do a fair amount of academic/written work, so the university needs some proof they will be able to do that, thus A level demands. And the reason academic/written work is required is because it has to be part of the course in order to get degree status. And without degree status, these schools don't get any HE funding so courses would be even more expensive...

I agree it's not necessarily the ideal way of doing things, then again in today's climate more and more working artists have to be able to put together funding applications for the arts council etc, so being able to write to requirements and have a certain level of numeracy is necessary. Very few people will walk into a salaried job and not need to do any of the complicated freelance stuff.

No, GSA students do not have to do any academic/written work for their degrees. It is purely the university imposing this on the school.
The students are training. No drama school has the completion of academic work as part of their degree courses. They are purely vocational courses.
GSA is the only school to place such high academic requirements on their students. The majority of school ask for a pass at A2 or a BTEC in performing arts.

And yes, Granny I was calling Ovaries a liar, clearly. Spreading fake news is just one of the methods the conspiracy of ballet dancers uses to destroy the NHS.